Sump refitting, Degreasing and Instant Gasket

[SilverBeast]

OK so I was stupid and put the wrong end of the siphon pipe for extracting the oil from the engine down the dipstick tube.  I pulled the wider section of host off the end of the pipe into the sump!

OK so the sumps off and I have a tube of CarPlan gastite Multi-purpose Silicone Sealant instant gasket from Motor World (withstands -60 to +260 C and specifically mentions sumps!).  Incidentally this comes in a tube the same as you use for frame/bathroom sealant with a trigger dispenser.

Any recommendations for degreasing the surfaces.  Sump has been cleaned with petrol (I have a can left over for a Suffolk Punch lawnmower I still need to fix!).  Is petrol sufficient to degrease (albeit not particularly safe!) or can anyone recommend anything else I am likely to have at home?

The sealant instructions are a bit confusing as it says apply to to target surface and "Do Not handle for at least 30 minutes to allow or a tack-free skin to form" This seems to contradict the instructions in Haynes which say to assemble within 10 minutes (though that is for the Ford part).  Has anyone used this before? Should I leave it 30 minutes and then assemble, or assemble straight away? Obviously I don't want to have to do this again!

I intend to align locate all the bolts, without bringing the surfaces together (hopefully).  Any recommendations for locating/fitting the four that are buried in the flywheel/clutch housing as I suspect they will be "awkward"?

Any recommendations for starting after I get it all back together? What's the easiest way to get oil back round the engine prior to starting or doesn't it matter. I was obviously changing the oil and filter anyway.

To cap it all about 10 minutes after I had dragged the tube off my wife's Fiesta dumped all the power steering fluid when a pipe came off and had to be towed to the garage.

......and I still haven't won the lottery!

[Chrispb]

OMG there is any easier way to drain the oil "the sump plug" .

A soluble degreaser usually sold in most car part/accessory places, brush it on then either jet wash or hose off.

Start as you would after normal oil change, or if you want to be extra fussy remove fuse 14 and crank till oil pressure light goes out

[Mirez]

They are nothing but trouble those things!

When I took my sump off (to fit the level sensor) I used IPA to clean the surface and then used automotive silicone. I imagine petrol will be just as effective as IPA and as long as it looks clean it should be fine. Don't forget to clean the surface the sump bonds to (engine side) as well.

Mine was also in gun format and I used a small bead on the sump itself and then offered it up, tightened the whole thing and left to cure overnight. I wouldn't wait for it to go tacky, just tighten it all up and let it set. The surfaces are both smooth anyway so you need very little in terms of a gasket to seal here but remember to use very sparingly as when it gets compressed it will spew into the sump and you don't want bits of that stuff breaking off and roaming your oil ways later!

Personally, I'd then let it set for the rest of the day with a big note on your dashboard (so you don't forget to fill the oil in the morning) and then start normally tomorrow.

[SilverBeast]

Thanks for the prompt responses. 

About what I thought.  I will be leaving it at least 24 hours to cure before lowering from axle stands and filling.

@Chris. Worked fine the previous two years though I know it doesn't get as much oil out, just my stupidity this year.  I got it to try and save time (!) clearing up afterwards, and to try and avoid that warm feeling as the initial rush of oil bathes your hand when you remove the plug, removing undertray and having to jack up the car when doing the services.

[Chrispb]

I know what your saying but I bet you just wish you'd done it the conventional way, hindsights a wonderful thing

[SilverBeast]

I know what your saying but I bet you just wish you'd done it the conventional way, hindsights a wonderful thing

Actually I'd rather have just put the hose on the right way round!!!

It's all back together now, though I'm going to leave it till Tuesday evening to put the oil back in.  I'll leave the undershield off so I can check for leaks, if rain isn't forecast, as I still need to change the gearbox oil as well. 

Also haven't done the rear wheel bearing either as couldn't be bothered after all this.  There's no play in that it's just where I believe that's where the whining is coming from.

Need to finally order a Polish intermediate driveshaft and Front discs/pads now as the inside of the drivers side is badly scored too !!!

[SilverBeast]

Just a quick update to say all fine now - no leaks.  I did try and post some pics but it didn't work (probably too many) and I have now given up!

[Mirez]

Nooo dont give up lol
Chuck em all in an email to wip@dev.fordmpv.com

[SilverBeast]

Left the clamp for the turbo pipe attached to the pipe by (by one of the two bolts as the first one sheared) and removed the three bolts to the sump instead.  Removed all the bolts holding the sump in place. Some are hidden down recesses, particularly those into the flywheel housing, but can bee seen with a torch while looking from underneath.  I used a 1/4" drive socket set with extension bars as I don't think a 1/2" would get into some of the bolts.  There are also three(?) large bolts holding the Flywheel housing to the sump, and another bracket for the turbo pipe round the back.
[attach=1]


Pictures with sump off showing some of the remaining gasket
[attach=2][attach=3][attach=4]

[SilverBeast]

Cleaned old gasket off with stanley knife blade (glass scraper) being careful not to scratch mating faces then cleaned up thoroughly with petrol and kitchen roll.  I left the sump off overnight so any oil would drain out before cleaning the bottom of the block.

Cleaned up sump
[attach=1]

Applied a 2-2.5mm diameter bead of sealant round the middle of the mating face - remember to run between the INSIDE of the sump and the fixing holes. Sorry no picture.
Fit sump loosley by alll bolts as soon as you can after applying sealant.  An assistant is handy while lifting the sump in place and holding it up while two diagonally opposed bolts are fitted
I then nipped all the sump bolts up.
Fitted and nipped up the flywheel housing bolts.
Torqued the sump bolts.
Torqued the Flywheel housing bolts.

Refitted Turbo pipe mounting brackets.

And after refitting
[attach=2][attach=3][attach=4]
[attach=5][attach=6]

The original sealant was white. You can just see the black sealant that has squeezed out in the after photos.  I used some sealant I got from Motosave in a "silicon Sealant" size tube and had loads left. It did say it was fuel, oil and temperature resistant.

[Chrispb]

Nice pictures Silverbeast are you going to do the how to for the reference library?

[SilverBeast]

I think it's all there. It may be some time.  I'm in the middle of separating from my wife (mutually and amicably which her lawyer appears to find difficult to accept - we're still talking and went camping as a family last month). I am busy fitting an alarm to and decorating her new house.  I then need to do some essential repairs and tarting up of our current house.  That will then be sold and whatever I buy will probably need stuff doing and I suspect a garage building as I have been spoilt by the one we had built here as I will need a large waterproof space as I have a Galaxy!  Once all that's done I should have plenty of time, or be due to retire!

[attach=1]

[SilverBeast]

Forgot to say you need to leave it plenty of time to cure (I would suggest at least 24hours) I think I left it 2 days, maybe 3 as I had the luxury of being able to get a lift to/from work just to be sure.

Don't refill with oil till then and obviously check for leaks before and after you start it.

[Chrispb]

No worries mate as you say all the info is there, we'd sooner individuals do there own write ups with the pictures they have taken and the satisfaction of contributing and having your user name with it.

[SilverBeast]

No problem. Without your and Mirez's (and others obviously) knowledge and help on this and the "other" site, I would have wasted a lot of time and money. I find photo's easier to explain with and get a buzz out of seeing them in the random selection at the top of the page!  There were two of mine there when I started typing this!

[oberlisc]

Thanks for the photo's SilverBeast, adds a little bit of knowledge to the problem my brothers 1.9TDi Galaxy has, long story, anyhoo he had to drain oil out of his sump after over fill, now the sump plug is leaking, I remember at the last service the mechanic saying the sump plug had been heli coiled, well it now looks like the coil is breaking down, so it looks like I'll have to find someone to Heli coil it again or replace the sump.

I'am thinking of trying some of the Hi Temp gasket on a bigger rubber washer.

[SilverBeast]

I wouldn't use a rubber gasket or sealant on the sump plug.

Did you replace the oil drain plug when you changed the oil?  You are supposed to but i've never changed mine (3 oil changes).  It should have a copper washer fitted to do the sealing you may get away with replacing the copper washer.  Main thing is to make sure the mating face on the sump is not damaged.  If the helicoil is coming out of the hole it may be stuck out and preventing the sump plug from sealing.

[oberlisc]

I haven't actually been under the car as yet ( Problem with my leg stopping me being able kneel), My brother has been doing the work with me talking him through it, helps him learn how to fix his car, he showed me the sump plug and it was just a over sized bolt you could see were it bolt had been shortened with a hacksaw, the bolt had a plastic washer then a rubber washer that was supposed to seal on the sump.

I'll tell him to get some copper washers from has works and we'll try them. 

[SilverBeast]

Plastic and rubber will soften up when hot so I'm not surprised it leaked.

Search for "sump washer" there are plenty there.  You should be able to work out what size you need from the bolt.  If you can measure/work out the thread on the bolt then you may be able to source a suitable replacement sump plug.  There also sump plug repair kits on ebay too! (No I don't work for them I would be  wary of putting in a cut down bolt as unless it has been properly "dressed" after cutting it can cause damage itself.

[oberlisc]

Plastic and Rubber washers have worked for at least 10 years my brother has had the car and its serviced every year by a local garage, it only started leaking since my brother had to remove it to drain some oil out.

I've seen the kits on ebay was thinking about maybe trying one of them if nothing else works, I'll give the copper washer a try first.

[SilverBeast]

Fair enough can't argue with the evidence.

Good luck.  Hope you get sorted.

[oberlisc]

Got another option, as the sump is aluminum a local fabricator as offered to weld it and drill and tap a new thread for Ã,£30.

So its an option.

[Mirez]

You can buy a brand new one for a fraction less then that though!

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Oil-Sump-with-hole-for-OIL-Level-Sensor-VW-Audi-SEAT-Skoda-Ford-038103603N-NEW-/360682071295?pt=UK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM&fits=Model%3AGalaxy&hash=item53fa53a4ff

[SilverBeast]

Ahh but he has a Galaxy and no Oil Sender to fit in the hole I guess so it might leak the oil out a bit faster than from the sump plug.

[Mirez]

Meh! There's always one

Ok, how about this one instead then:
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/New-Ford-Galaxy-alloy-sump-1-6-petrol-1-9-diesel-/281140988079?pt=UK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM&hash=item41754f08af

Unsure what the 1.6 petrol reference is all about but the picture looks like the correct one.

[SilverBeast]

Meh! There's always one

...and it's usually me!!

[oberlisc]

Ok Guys this is a picture of the sump, with the offending leak.

[oberlisc]

If you can see in the bottom left of the photo, there is a oil level sensor fitted.

[Mirez]

Then buy a new one!

A helicoil is, after all, a fix to a problem - if you can remove the problem for Ã,£25 delivered its sooo not worth doing anything else.

[oberlisc]

Alright calm down,
It's fixed and holding up to now, new sump washer that the mechanics use on the HGV's were he works and a bead of Instant gasket around the washer.

[oberlisc]

Still holding no leaks, car been for a service but told garage to suck the oil out instead of draining it.

[oberlisc]

The sump listed above is not the correct one for the VW 1.9TDI AUY engine, the correct part number is  038103603C  hope this helps someone.

http://www.partsbase.org/vw/sharan-syncro-4motion-sha-eu-2001-10320-cylinder-block-with-pistons-oil-sump/#p-vw-038103603c