Blocked DPF (DTC codes P2463, P242F and P244B) despite recent long drives

[chabadav]

We just returned from a 1500km drive from Greece last night (all motorway at between 120 and 160 km/h) and the engine malfunction light came on this morning and poor acceleration.

I plugged in FORScan and PCM module codes for blocked DPF came up:

P2463:00-AD (DPF - soot accumulation)
P242F:00-2D (DPF restriction - Ash accumulation, Bank 1)
P244B:00-EC (DPF differential pressure too high, Bank 1)

The software tells me not to attempt forced static regeneration because both codes P242F and P244B are set.

The car was running perfectly the last 3 weeks in Greece ans also the driving there and back. It has done 335.000 km and never had any serious engine problems.

Should I unbuild the DFP and get it professionally cleaned?
The EGR unit was renewed last year by our local garage so seems unlikely this would be the cause.

I would be grateful for any tips someone may have.

[SirDavidAlhambra]

Have u tried giving it a good long drive at high revs?

 

[brianh]

Have u tried giving it a good long drive at high revs?

 

You'd probabbly find that impossible with that sort of fault being logged.

I'd check the pressure sensors - Don't know your particular vehicle, but those I've seen and have the misfortune to own with DPF have a sensor running on a long length of pipe to either side of the DPF. That sensor is what tells it if its full/clogged etc. Last time I had issues with mine, it was due to both hoses rotting away so they were open to the air and clearly not sensing pressure in the exhaust. Managed to repair mine (I'd have preferred to replace, but wasn't possible at the time as was struggling to find a part number being Renault) with some copper lpg pipe to bridge the gap (right sort of size and was what I had to hand). Its been fine like that since 2018!

[johnnyroper]

Given you have just drove a decent distance one could assume the dpf isn't clogged assuming it was performing regenerations. First thing I would check is the running temp to make sure it's reaching operating temp as that can stop regens taking place. If running temp is ok then check the pipes from DPF to pressure sensor are not damaged as Brian said but also that there are no blockages. The last one I had where I knew DPF wasn't clogged I found the steel pipe from the filter was blocked with soot so sensor wasn't registering a pressure. Gave it a rodding with some Bowden cable connected to a drill and cleared the blockage, a blow down with compressed air will also clear a blockage.
Was able to clear the codes and give a good run all was well after

[chabadav]

Thanks you for you replies brianh and johnnyroper!

This weekend I will try to drive up on ramps and have a look at the DPF as well as all the pipes/tubes that link to the pressure sensor. I presume there must be two, one at each end of the DPF unit. Where is the actual sensor located?

The point about the engine running temperature may be relevant as I have noticed since a couple of years (since I changed the thermostat) that the water temperature is slightly cooler than previously. Now the dial needle does nor quite reach the halfway temperature mark at 6 o-clock.

How do I check engine running temperature in FORScan and is there any way I can see if regenerations have actually taken place recently using the software?

Another thing I was thinking is that my wife had a small bump last year on front (had to replace front bumper) and this could have damaged the intercooler, which is located lower front. Is there an easy way to check for boost leaks here (or anywhere in the air intake system) without a garage visit?

Thanks again for your help!

[chabadav]

My car is a 2007 Galaxy, 2.0 TDCi manual

[SirDavidAlhambra]

I think a leaking intercooler would cause the motor car to run on a rich fuel mixture and therefore cooler than usual, would that in turn affect the DPF's ability to regenerate?

 

[johnnyroper]

If you have a leak on intercooler you would hear a whoosh type noise on acceleration,black smoke and be down on power unless it was only a small leak, typically you can also get a build up of oily mess around the leak.


Not sure what the engine is like in the galaxy but if it's same as mondeo and x type jag of that era they also have an oil cooler thermostat which are notorious for failing.

In live data on forscan you can check coolant temp/engine temp depending on terminology. Not really familiar with the Ford diagnostics so not sure what you can and can't see in regards to DPF last regen etc.

Again as not overly familiar with Ford set up so don't know if it has 2 pipes to pressure sensor, some cars do and some don't. Fiat 1.9 only has 1, bmw have 1 in front of dpf and another sensor for after turbine pressure.

[chabadav]

Thanks for your input again!

I checked the intercooler and indeed found a small dent but not sure it is actually split and drawing air. I cannot insert photos as it asks for a URL here and I have them locally on my computer. All other pipes and rubber tubing coming from Turbo to inlet manifold seem to be OK although some oil gunk under the oil pan and around the nearby hard plastic pipe coming from turbo. I think this comes from the oil pan gasket however...

I also removed the MAF sensor from the inlet manifold and cleaned with spray (engine cleaner and then brake cleaner - no touching with anything). It was really dirty and can clearly see the wire again now.

I will try to clear all the codes tomorrow and see if it makes a difference. I will also trc to measure the running temp in real time using FORScan

[brianh]

To attach photos, Click the preview button below the post, and then you should see attachment options below the posting window.

Example of a sensor
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/265387620007

Don't take that as a recommendation that its suitable for your car, merely a reasonable photo on the first listing i could find.

Good call on it being blocked as a possibility Jonnyroper

[chabadav]

OK, thanks - here are the photos I took after dismantling the front parts of car to expose intercooler.

It costs only 85 EUR to buy a new intercooler so I probably will do that to be sure.

I also bought a new DPF unit for 109 EUR (this includes rebate for sending them the old one) as it will cost just as much to have it cleaned. Do not want to clean it myself!

The tubes going to the DPF unit pressure sensor at top back of engine are in good condition and not blocked.

[SirDavidAlhambra]

Tbh, you would probably know if the inter cooler had a leak... as Johnny says, you would see black smoke coming out the exhaust, you would hear a whistle, you would see oil around the leak. It's possible there's a small leak, but I'm not sure that's the first thing I'd change. Could you kneel down by the intercooler and ask the wife to give the throttle a few good revs (get that turbo pumping air) while you listen out for whistles? Or maybe drive down a country road at like 20 mph with the windows wide open and ideally going uphill then floor it as hard as you can without kicking down a gear so that the turbo works hard and you get maximum boost and then at that point listen out for noises? Also, how has the mpg been lately and does the combustion engine seem to be running cooler than usual?

I wonder if it could just be that the dpf is damaged? The innards of such a device consists of an intricate honeycomb structure, very delicate and fragile looking. One whack on a speed bump or going over a block of wood etc and it's had its lot. I wonder, could it simply be that the DPF is damaged and just needs replacing. I am not an expert on this topic however.

[johnnyroper]

I seriously doubt it would get damaged like that as the dpf structure is quite robust as it's packed in tight.
I would also be reluctant to replace the dpf at this stage especially if the replacement is aftermarket. You can quite easily clean them yourself,I did a severely blocked one a few weeks back it was so blocked up the turbo got extremely hot from the slow escaping gasses. Removed DPF,took sensors out and blocked holes up just left inlet side open. Filled with some wynns off car cleaner (£25) left overnight to soak,drained it off then jet washed through outlet side until water ran clear. It was perfect after.
What I would do first though is run engine with differential hose off and have a feel for the back pressure,not scientific I know but amount of pressure gives you an idea if there is excessive pressure or if the sensor could be reading wrong.

[SirDavidAlhambra]

Yes, sorry - isn't my area of expertise. I would definitely go with what Johnny says!

[chabadav]

What I would do first though is run engine with differential hose off and have a feel for the back pressure,not scientific I know but amount of pressure gives you an idea if there is excessive pressure or if the sensor could be reading wrong.

Not sure I completely understand how to do this. Should I remove both hoses, start the car and then put fingers on each pipe to see if there is a difference is output pressure?

Unfortunately I do not have the space or equipment to clean the DPF myself at the moment. I have ordered a new aftermarket unit but will keep hold of the old unit and clean when we move to our new house in France next year.

I am struggling to remove the bolts holding the DFP unit in place as they are rusted on an Nr. 14 socket slips over when I try to turn. I sprayed anti-rust fluid last night and then some WD-40 this morning but to no avail. I think I will have to resort to the angle grinder and cut through the bolts...

[chabadav]

Update:
When I started to remove the rubber hoses from the DFP lines there was a significant amount of very dry, grey, scaly soot came out (lots more came out as I pummeled and twisted the tube once it was off).

I therefore completely removed both pipes (also from sensor) and only the one connected to the front DPF line was completely blocked and hard. It also had a puncture in the rubber tube under the heat sheath. I replaced with some appropriate tubing I happen to have and put back on the heat-shielding sheath. The sensor itself looked OK and the entry holes where tubes attach completely clear and clean. I just looked with a light and did not attempt to remove the sensor.

So I quess this is the main problem, but still not clear to me why it happened.

I will see tomorrow with the next steps as it was raining too hard today to work a lot outside.

Thanks again for your advice, which seems spot on!

[brianh]

At a guess given the mileage its probabbly just an accumulation of debris, personally I wouldn't be too concerned. Most of the debris would be further down the pipe than the sensors anyway. Seems like you need to give it a test and see what happens.

Best of luck!

[johnnyroper]

Sounds like that's your problem then if it was blocked solid in the pressure sensor pipework. It's just one of those things that can happen with the particles coming through exhaust causing a blockage over time.
Worth checking the steel pipe aswell now in case it has backed up in that aswell, blowing down it will tell you if it's clear.

See if faults clear and you can force a regen as it may have been restricting regenerations with iffy pressure readings.

[chabadav]

Sounds like that's your problem then if it was blocked solid in the pressure sensor pipework. It's just one of those things that can happen with the particles coming through exhaust causing a blockage over time.
Worth checking the steel pipe aswell now in case it has backed up in that aswell, blowing down it will tell you if it's clear.

See if faults clear and you can force a regen as it may have been restricting regenerations with iffy pressure readings.

So the differential pressure fault code has gone (P244B), however the other DFP blocked faults still present (P242F and P2463) and still drives in some type of restricted performance mode with no power. I nevertheless drove for 30 min in 3rd or 4th gear at 3000rpm, however the engine malfunction came on again so I drove carefully back home.
Also not able to perform static regeneration for some reason but perhaps that is because I have a free copy of FORScan and needs to be licensed. I have v2.3.41beta.

Is there some action that I am missing in FORScan or is it simply because I need to purchase a license to perform servicing functions?

I also attached tubes to the DPF pressure lines and checked the air output while idling, as you suggested - the front pipe (in front of DPF) blows MUCH stronger than the rear line. So I quess that means the DFP is indeed pretty blocked up!

So for me the best alternative will be to install the new DFP unit when it comes in a couple of days.

[chabadav]

forgot to mention that both fron and rear DPF unit pipes are clear as I can blow into them

[brianh]

Forscan usually tells you in a very clear way if you can't access a section due to lack of licnese - try the PATS modules for example, these clearly say you need a license if you try them and don't have one (though you can get a free short term license to get around that anyway).

Think you have answered your own question though with the pressure your seeing. I'd suspect you might find it would clean up if you could remove it, but as you say you cannot do so your a bit stuck really. Though I'd expect the rear pressure to be lower in any case as theres less restriction there anyway.

Sounds like its overloaded with ash so your sort of stuck at this point with remvoing it in any case to either clean it or replace it.

[chabadav]

So everything back to normal now, thanks again for all your advice and help!

In the end I had to flex off the bolts holding the DPF unit using an angle grinder!
Reset all the engine faults and now it is running so much better than it has been for quite a while, with plenty of smooth pulling power.

I just hope that the underlying cause was either the blocked pressure hose or the dirty MAF sensor at the intake manifold. I guess I will find out soon.

One last question - I did not reset the learned EGR valve values as the EGR was changed last year but should I do that as well?

[johnnyroper]

As it is running fine I would leave well alone now, did you clean DPF or for the replacement?

[chabadav]

I put a new DPF filter on (only 129 EUR). Not sure if I keep the old one (for cleaning myself sometime and use as reserve) or send back and get 20 EUR.

[johnnyroper]

It will be worth more to you than 20 euro even if you clean it and stick on eBay. But I would keep it as a spare as my experience tells me the aftermarket won't last as long as the OE one

[SirDavidAlhambra]

Good advice, personally I always hold onto old parts for at least a fortnight before I dispose of them, just in case the new part turns out to be faulty

 

[brianh]

Cleaning it out might also give you a better idea if it was really blocked.