The All-Electric MPV

[SirDavidAlhambra]

Will there ever be a battery-powered MPV, I wonder.

They are big heavy motor cars and I can't really see a battery giving it enough range or power.

My Alhamb can go 650 miles on a full tank of diesel if you drive it sensibly. I bet a battery-powered car would only be able to go about 150 miles in the winter with the lights and heater on.

Now I know most people say just stop off and have a break, but I'm not sure it would always be practical. I'd need at least 350 miles from a single charge, and would prefer more so that I wouldn't have to be constantly plugging the thing in.

Diesel has 39 Megajoules of energy per litre. So my Alhamb has a 70 litre tank I think which means it can store 2,730 Megajoules of energy. Now then, one joule is equal to 2.777778 x 10^-7 kilowatt-hours which would be equivalent to a 758KWh battery. At 12V, that would be a 63,166 Amp-hour battery.

By comparison, my huge car battery for the starter motor is 110Ah and that thing weighs like 20Kg. So we would be talking 574 of those batteries just to give the same range as a tank full of diesel. Or roughly 10 tonnes of batteries. Hmm!

I know lithium batteries have a higher energy density than lead-acid, but somehow I'm just not seeing electric batteries being anywhere near as convenient as good old diesel for a good old fashioned MPV.


So, in summary - The Alhamb: A tried and tested formula. Modern technology has a long way to go yet before the good old 1.9 Tdi meets its match.

[Mirez]

Personally, I think battery vehicles will be a short term fad. I see them as a stepping stone between fossil fuels and sustainable alternatives as 1hr+ charge times are impractical for most people, range is a major problem and mining techniques are horrific (but hey, it's not in our country so its ok right?)

I've just done a round trip the Falmouth in Cornwall, with a modern electric car I would have made it there on one charge but the large, 4-star hotel didn't have a charging point. The University I went to the next day had 10, all of which were full with cars that didn't move for the entire day so had I been in an electric car, I would still be there or suffering a 18hr wait whilst I use a 240v socket. Sadly, people are inconsiderate so once they have a parking space with a charger, it doesn't matter if the car is charged or not, they aren't going to move the car until they are ready to go and the reality is that makes the technology impossible unless you put a charger in for every parking space within a car-park and then you have all manner of other issues to do with grid supply and capacity.

Sustainable fuels are going to arrive fairly soon, cleanly made and carbon zero, they'll simply replace either petrol or diesel in stations and we will all get back to filling up in under 5 minutes.

To answer your question though, yes, they'll make an MPV fairly soon. Ford already have the all electric Transit so that'll likely be made into a bus and VW have the ID Buzz so it's already a thing... just not a very good one IMO

[johnnyroper]

I am not an electric car person in the slightest as I think it's all a con, these people hooning around in teslas thinking they are saving the planet are just deluded. The carbon emissions to produce them can't be any better than a fossil fuel vehicle, so they might be greener to the end user to a certain degree but electricity doesn't grow on trees.
During that hot spell a few weeks back London was close to running out of electricity, if everyone had leccy cars like our lying government claim they want the country would effectively shut down as there's no way the demand for juice could be met.
Internal combustion engines haven't had their day yet,as Mirez said a solution will be coming and with any luck it will also be the end for Tesla's and put Elon back in his box!

[Mirez]

... with any luck it will also be the end for Tesla's and put Elon back in his box!

Hear Hear!

[brianh]

Hear Hear!

I thought maybe it was only me that really couldn't stand him!

[johnnyroper]

I thought maybe it was only me that really couldn't stand him!

Nope I find him a repulsive individual,on par with boris in my opinion

[Solentview]

Mirez - I notice that you mention sustainable fuels in one of your posts - have you (or anybody else) any experience of using HVO as a 'drop in' replacement for diesel fuel? HVO = hydrotreated vegetable oil, cracked and distilled in the same way as fossil crude (as I understand it), and claimed to have very low emissions. Any thoughts, anyone?

I too am very suspicious of the EV fad, and intend to hold onto my 70 litre tank and 650/700 mile range as long as I possibly can. I am about to use the Alhambra to take a load to Edinburgh, including, possibly, a mobility scooter, and then bring elderly parents back on the return trip, and at the moment I cannot see a suitable EV alternative.   

[Mirez]

It's not something I've looked into tbh. I remember 'veg oil' being fine for the old mk1 engines but not the PD in the mk2 however that was many years ago and I've not kept up with the changes in that market. 'Veg oil' may literally have been that back then!
 

[brianh]

I think the HVO aspect is only seen as being sustainable if its using used oil rather than virgin (new) oil. Its certainly done commercially by some of the bigger firms (Oileco supply new oil and collect used oil from restaurants, McDonalds also collect their own amongst others and use it themselves).

I don't think the current battery model is a workable long term fix, there are many issues around it some of which have been covered above, I can see electric as a longer term possibility, but suspect a lot of it will become fuel cell based rather than the current battery setup. I can't see liquid based fuels with engines completely disappearing as quickly as they are trying to push them. There are simply not enough materials to make them, and they are too expensive at present for a fair number of people.

[mikewilson]

I have been a fan of hydrogen fuel cell vehicles for a long time.  It seems to be happening at last.  Maybe, like unleaded fuel, it will be a case of none, none, none, nothing else available.