Spongy Brakes / Pedal Going To Floor

[Phillip Hill]

So, my brakes aren't good. Gneral driving you don't really notice a problem, unless someone pulls out on you and you need to stop in a hurry - the brakes simply aren't stopping me as fast as I'd like. I took into a garage last week to have a look, they advised I had a rear seized caliper and it needed new discs and pads as a result. They wanted Ã,£300. So I bought an easybleed kit, I changed the caliper, rear discs and pads and freed/greased the sliding pins. Using the easybleed kit I have bled and flushed all four calipers with about 2 litres of brake fluid in total. It was the first time I'd done any of this on my own, but had helped do discs, pads and a caliper change before. Other than a stubborn hand brake cable, 2 rounded bleed nipples (mole grips being the only way I can free and tighten them now) and my spare wheel getting stuck (for the easybleed kit) and whilst underneath it, the wire eventually freed inside that ridiculous mechanism and came crashing down on my head giving my a nice bruise above my eye, everything went well 

But... the brakes have marginally improved.

• I can depress the brake pedal to floor, it doesn't seem to hold pressure. It resists but eventually goes flat and I hit the pedal stop
• There's no way I'd ever be able to brake hard enough for ABS to kick in - the brakes just won't stop me in a hurry
• If I pump the pedal a few times, it goes firm but then goes back to the floor

I now suspect the master cylinder based on what I've read. So some questions and some help please.

I've read about using VSDS to bleed the ABS. Does it sound like this would help? Do the sypmtoms sound liek air int he system? Would pedal to the floor be caused by air in the ABS system? Does the lite version do this? I used it a while ago to read some fault codes and turn off the service now warning, but that's all.

Is there a way to determine if it's the master cylinder conclusively? Could it still be air in the system? I don't appear to be losing brake fluid. Before I started any of the work the fluid wasn't low at all. I've mentioned in another post, next Tuesday I drive to Spain and I'm now starting to stress and need to get the brake situation sorted asap. When I first took it in last week, I suspected a quick brake change and bleed would fix it, but I seem to be past that now   

If I'd left it to the garage, I'd have had a bill for 300 quid for the caliper etc, and now I'd be hit with this, so I'm glad I decided to do it myself. The master cylinder doesn't look like a huge step up from what I've already done. Would anyone trust one from a breaker... I've only just had the timing belt done, 2 front tyres, I've spent about Ã,£500 in the last month and now funds are ruining low! Advice appreciated

[johnnyroper]

As the problem existed before the brake work was done I would be inclined to rule out air in the system especially as you have put 2 litres through.

I would be looking at worn master cylinder not holding pressure, don't go down the breakers route for such a critical part in my opinion. Get a new one then give a good bleed through. I have used easy bleed in past to get most of air out and then got a helper to assist with final bleed. I.e pump and hold pedal down while you tighten nipple,also start from furthest nipple away and work closer.