Overheating

[mickeywis]

Hi all. I`ve always had a slight water loss from my 2003 TDI, but as I rarely use it (1000 miles per year) it`s never really concerned me too much, i just top it up every now and then. I took it out for a run this week as I intended to go for a 100 mile round trip tomorrow. For the first time my gauge shot up and the `STOP` sign came on, I pulled over immediately, popped the bonnet, and water everywhere from the expansion tank (although it was still full?) I released the pressure slowly until it all finally sucked back into the engine, topped up again (1.5L) and nursed it home with no issues. My heater has been known to blow cold occasionally when on hot ever since I`ve owned it. Where do I start looking for a solution? Any help please!! Thank you for reading.

[Chrispb]

Think in your case I would check on the water pump first as you may have one of the early ones with the plastic impeller
see my video below.

.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nY6FBiliIys

and here also

https://www.fordmpv.com/smf2/ford-galaxy-reference-library/heater-blowing-cold-air-and-engine-overheating-underload-(all-models)/#sthash.jAlMIHIc.dpbs

[johnnyroper]

If water pump is ok then check the restrictor in small return pipe to expansion bottle,it should have a small hole in it to allow slight return. If they are both ok I would be suspecting head gasket

[mickeywis]

Thanks for your replies. I`m going to start with checking the return to expansion tank, do I have to wait until the car is hot before the water returns?

[Chrispb]

No you can check from cold also.

[mickeywis]

Water is trickling through into expansion tank. I have been playing around and have no hot air through rear heaters, only front. I also just noticed when I switched the engine off that I normally hear the `run on` pump continue but today nothing.

[mickeywis]

I`m also now thinking that perhaps my waterpump is knackered but because the vehicle is rarely used or put under any strain the run on pump was keeping things under control? I was driving up a long hill when it overheated and and chucked all its water out. Thanks everyone for all your advice so far.

[Chrispb]

You can get a peek of the impeller by removing the thermostat then try turning the impeller with your finger or a small screwdriver, if it can be turned or appears damaged it will need replacing, this will involve removing the timing belt which should also be replaced at the same time.
You are advised to replace the belt with the kit which includes the tensioner and idler pulley.

[johnnyroper]

Sounds very much like the water pump is not working and now run on pump given up it is overheating.
As above take thermostat housing off and take a look at impeller

[mickeywis]

Thanks to everyone for your advice. Just took thermostat housing off and waterpump is o.k. I now believe it is the run on pump. I just gave the pump a twist to check connections before I take it off and install new brushes and could hear water gushing through it, a fault there somewhere! Going to take it off tomorrow and give it a good service with the new brushes also (Ebay Ã,£2.99!!). I will return with the outcome once finished.
Thanks again.

[fedstar]

Around this time last year both me and my brother David who drive a MK1 and a MK2 both had our radiators start to leak. Not having to remove the timing belt on the MK1 we changed my water pump, but like i say on both wagons we had a leak on the left side an although it looked like the water pump was leaking, it was just the way the water was getting blown and laying at the pump.
The problem showed itself when the cooling system was under load, going up hills, so perhaps a short run up a steep hill may be worth a shot.

A second hand rad off an MK1 Alhambra we had scrapped for me and a Flea bay special for Davids Mk2, no more overheating.
Just letting you know Mickey



Mark...

[mickeywis]

Thanks for your input Mark. I had just gone up a steep hill when mine overheated. I`m hoping the run on pump resolves my problem. But, as I said earlier, I`ve always been losing water since I`ve owned it. I will return with my results!

[johnnyroper]

I don't think a knackered run on pump will cause overheating,problems with rear heater not getting hot due to poor circulation and boost heat cutting out on over temp as it's only there to assist the flow to rear really. The engine pump provides the cooling circuit flow around engine and rad. I would say your head gasket is likely cause.

[mickeywis]

New brushes to run on pump fitted and pump is working fine. Just done 50 mile run including steep hills and no overheating. The mystery of having to top up water now and then still mystifies me (and many others according to research) yet, back on the road and enjoying my vehicle again.
Thanks again for all the replies regarding my initial enquiry.

[johnnyroper]

Have you noticed water stains around the expansion bottle/battery tray area?
Honestly I think the run on pump running is masking the problem as that being defective should not cause over heating.

[Mirez]

Unfortunately I agree, the aux pump isnt going to be a cause of overheating as it only aids the main pump to drive water to the rear and doesn't circulate the block. As JR above, it's going to be masking something more sinister I'm afraid.

[mickeywis]

Sorry to trouble you again guys, but its overheated again. Could it be as simple as the thermostat? Should I remove it and run without one to see what happens?

[mickeywis]

Or, to be totally honest, if I remove the thermostat, would it disguise the problem enough to sell it!!

[johnnyroper]

Removing the thermostat will open up the cooling circuit which may prolong the period before overheating.

[2006ransome]

Head gasket me thinks

[johnnyroper]

Yep I would stick money on head gasket failure. Esteem no2 and cooling jacket as that seems the usual place.

OP what year,mileage,condition and spec is it? And if you do sell it on what would you be looking for?

[mickeywis]

Follow up to my problems! I removed the thermostat, temperature fluctuated 1/4 to just under 1/2. I decided to check the cooling fans, pulled plug off the rad and completed the circuit manually with a heavy duty wire, fans burst into life and I can honestly say I have never heard these come on before. Went for a drive in todays hot weather and gauge barely moved. Removed expansion cap when I stopped and a little pressure was released, stuck my finger in to check temp and although quite warm certainly not hot. Could it really be the fan sensor? I`m feeling optimistic. Don`t really want to sell the old girl, Ghia X, 6 seater, 10" dvd in front with built in screens in back (still with factory fitted vcr player as well) 18" audi rims with 245/40`s, recon turbo fitted by me last year, loads of history. It`s just such a good looking vehicle!! Regards, Mickey.

[johnnyroper]

Honestly don't waste your money on a fan sensor it won't be that,the chances of getting a pd hot enough for rad fan to cut in are very slim unless going up big hills in hot weather towing a caravan.

By removing thermostat you have opened the cooling system up fully which is giving you a lower running temp.

The underlying fault is still there and I will stick money on it being the head gasket.

Sorry to shatter your optimism.

[egg]

Mine was doing the same, and turned out to be the head gasket after trying all the other possible solutions just changed the gasket and all good since. 

[steveo59]

Hi Mickeywis,
I know you say you have checked the waterpump and that it was ok. When you removed the thermostat housing and then the thermostat, did you stick your finger in and touch the impeller of the waterpump? If you can turn the impeller with your finger then it has come loose on the shaft, or if it feels as though any of the blades on the impeller are broken then it is the waterpump. I definitely think your problem is with coolant circulation as is also shown by your heater blowing cold air. I had this problem myself 3 yrs ago and recognise the symptoms. Another way to tell if it's a circulation problem is when it overheats again touch the bottom radiator hose and you will find it is cold.
I have never had a head gasket problem but correct me if I'm wrong, with a head gasket problem it's often the pressure from the cylinders getting into the coolant that forces the coolant out of the header tank. Any overheating is as a result of coolant loss and not the cause of the coolant loss.

[johnnyroper]

With head gasket it is compression leaking in to cooling system which then pushes coolant past the cap,the overheating can be as a result of low coolant or the air in the system.

[steveo59]

just as I thought. Thanks for clarifying that for me.

[mickeywis]

Hello Guys, back again! Thanks for all your comments. Have used the `bus` over summer for camping holidays and have kept it under control by `nursing` it along by having a switch inside the cabin to control cooling fans. Let`s not forget I have no thermostat too. It definitely does not like being under stress, a steady 55mph and she can be controlled, but anymore, that's when temperature rises and always has dribbles of water from expansion tank. So, although I can keep her under control, is it time to address a head gasket fault? The pressure when I release the cap on the expansion tank is incredible and the whole water system gurgles. My question is, do head gasket repair kits from a bottle really work? I also hope people learn from my water problems as I am.
Regards, TDI Owner!

[Mirez]

In a word? No.

The bottle stuff is useless for anything other then coolant to like at leeks. Once the cylinder is involved it's a pointless exercise as the gas pressure will blow past, normally exasperating the problem.

[mickeywis]

Thanks for the reply Mirez,
   Will save my money and keep `nursing` my ol` Galaxy along!

[johnnyroper]

No other option but to whip that head off to resolve the problem,as pressure is so great and it's been like it a while I would get the head checked. Fingers crossed it's just gasket knackered,you should be able to see witness marks between cylinder and water jacket

[marcushamblin1976]

No other option but to whip that head off to resolve the problem,as pressure is so great and it's been like it a while I would get the head checked. Fingers crossed it's just gasket knackered,you should be able to see witness marks between cylinder and water jacket

Best to get on with it than nurse it. The parts can be had for about Ã,£100. I  always check the turbo actuator diaphragm as well as i have seen a few where they are split and i believe this causes higher boost pressures and in turn contributes to head lift. If you keep driving it the head is more likely to warp and your not supposed to rework these heads. I also use the 150bhp headbolts on replacement as well.

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[mickeywis]

The old bus will be sorn from end of October until March and sitting in my garage so the head will be coming off. I`m going to try a `bottle sealer` before then just out of curiosity. For the sake of Ã,£20-Ã,£30 pound, I`m interested in the results and to also feedback to others the results. As with a lot of us, playing with vehicle mechanisms is an enjoyable pastime, It`s a man thing isn't it? I`m not worried about wasting a few quid on experimenting, gets me out of the house! But, I`d like to ask for recommendations on which to experiment with, is K-seal the best?

Regards, Mickey

[johnnyroper]

I would advise against using that stuff as it will cause you more work in the long run as it can restrict flow through rads etc.

[marcushamblin1976]

I would advise against using that stuff as it will cause you more work in the long run as it can restrict flow through rads etc.

Its very unlikely to work.  Year's ago I tried it on a Vw Bora tdi to cure the head gasket and it never worked.  Its good for a quick fix on a radiator leak and i managed to fix a heater matrix on a mk5 Golf tdi that was bellowing steam out of the dashboard on a customers car because he had no money.  A year later he's still got no money and the matrix is still good.

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[mike wilson]

As above, those products are designed to deal with the high temps and lower pressures of a cooling system.  The much higher pressures produced by a system pressurised by combustion leakage will overwhelm it.

Better to buy Ã,£30 worth of beer.  At least you'll get some enjoyment before the headache.

[johnhope]

Hi all. I`ve always had a slight water loss from my 2003 TDI, but as I rarely use it (1000 miles per year) it`s never really concerned me too much, i just top it up every now and then. I took it out for a run this week as I intended to go for a 100 mile round trip tomorrow. For the first time my gauge shot up and the `STOP` sign came on, I pulled over immediately, popped the bonnet, and water everywhere from the expansion tank (although it was still full?) I released the pressure slowly until it all finally sucked back into the engine, topped up again (1.5L) and nursed it home with no issues. My heater has been known to blow cold occasionally when on hot ever since I`ve owned it. Where do I start looking for a solution? Any help please!! Thank you for reading.

I had the samme issue as you descibe here, and tried all the possibilities as thermostat, restricter, waterpump etc.
The expension tank was pressurised after each trip, and got worse as the time passed.
I had to change the headgasket, and when there was good access, I also overhauled the turbo, witch was stuck,  and cleaned the inletmanifoil/EGR valve.
Its not a difficult job, and if you have all the parts, it is a good day work

[mickeywis]

Hello again everybody!!! Just ordered a head gasket kit, BIG LOLS. The poor old bus has done only 350 miles since my first post, she sits in the garage fully legal but neglected due to the head problems. Gone are the times of playing in the garage man cave fiddling with your motor :-(  . Well the time has come to resurrect the old girl so the head will be coming off next week and we will see where we go from there. I`m expecting a skim as it`s been gone so long. Will keep everyone updated on my progress as there are other jobs I will be doing to bring her back to her former glory.

[johnnyroper]

Going on my experience I think you will get away with a skim,mine clearly had gasket failure as black marks between no2 and coolant jacket itââ,¬â,,¢s common on the PD especially AUY. Just straight edge it after a clean up to check.

[mickeywis]

Cheers Johnny, will keep in touch. And thanks for taking the time to reply.

[mirosti]

During last two years I had similar problem, and I resolved it with tightening head bolts.
In last 2000 km no any water loss, everything is just fine-guage is always on 90deg.
Maybe helps to someone..

[christiant]

I

During last two years I had similar problem, and I resolved it with tightening head bolts.
In last 2000 km no any water loss, everything is just fine-guage is always on 90deg.
Maybe helps to someone..

s it safe to tighten the head bolts? Im scared they might snap....

[johnnyroper]

I have seen on golf forums they have tried tightening head bolts by 90 degrees, some had success with head gasket issues going while others fault remained. Suppose it depends on how far gone it was. What tends to happen is the bolts stretch/lose force with all the heating and cooling cycles.
If you do end up changing gasket fit the 130/150bhp bolts as they are more reliable.

[mirosti]

@johnnyroper
Thanks for support, but it seems that in my country(Serbia) not availaible bolts 130/150bhp.
Do you know factory number of theese bolts, maybe I can purchase in Germany.

[marcushamblin1976]

038103384c is the 150 bhp head bolt part number.

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[mirosti]

Thanks a lot Marcus..

[christiant]

I have decided to give it a go with tightening the head bolts. Should I just go 90 degrees, and is it a good idea just to anti clockwise first a little to see if they move? I am concerned about snapping them. I have a very minor leak so I think its worth a try.

[johnnyroper]

If you are going to try the bolts work in the correct sequence on a cold engine,make sure you release pressure cap so cooling system has no pressure in it.
Then gently go 90 degrees on each,donââ,¬â,,¢t slacken first though.

[mirosti]

This is just I done on my engine.

[bigBri]

If you are going to try the bolts work in the correct sequence on a cold engine,make sure you release pressure cap so cooling system has no pressure in it.
Then gently go 90 degrees on each,donââ,¬â,,¢t slacken first though.

Ha ha ha ha still having issues with mine overheating.. can't afford to get rid but taking it to friend who good on cars (cheap as well [emoji23]) he's not happy cause he knows it's tit of problem and wouldn't be happy handing it back not done, he's gonna do the bolts as you say obviously new seal, flush rad and system out, IF it carries on new head or skim I guess, everything else working well so will bite bullet.. ha ha ha the threads on this are everywhere..
Oh off subject but he won't do my top strut bush (can't remember name) is it easier to just buy new suspension with top mounts and use old springs

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