EGR and Intake Manifold Clogging with carbon build up

[Mirez]

Just to re-iterate the occasional need to check out the EGR and manifold situation for carbon build up (check out the reference library if you are new to the forum)

This is from the 2005 bamma I'm breaking at present, it's already been changed in its life and this one has done 114K miles...

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[1958steveflying]

Only one thing to do with an EGR is blank it off, it serves no function that is remotely needed in any way.

[insanitybeard]

Well, EGR is supposed to reduce emissions (assuming it's working properly!) but other than that it doesn't have a useful purpose!

Yikes!    I'm not absolutely certain how it works but I think simply disconnecting and plugging the vacuum supply hose to the EGR valve may actually effectively disable it, for this to be the case I'm assuming the EGR valve is spring closed and the vacuum is applied to overcome the spring force to open the valve, therefore removing the vacuum supply will simply allow the valve to sit permanently in it's fully closed position (assuming it's not so gummed up it's seized!). I stand to be corrected on this of course.

P.S, Mark, that inlet manifold on that Alhambra you're breaking isn't still up for sale is it?  I'm planning on taking mine out for inspection come better weather but if I can get another manifold I can pre-clean it ready for immediate fitting once I've got the old one off rather than having to clean the existing one once I've removed it!

[Mirez]

Correct, the EGR is an emissions control system. Disabling it is illegal in the UK and could fail at MoT time although unlikely to be noticed.

Again correct, the valve is a spring loaded affair which will remain closed unless vac is applied.

PM sent

[Chrispb]

While were on the subject just to remind members, here's that email from the Department of Transport a few years back.

This is a copy of an email I received back from the Department of Transport regarding the blanking off of the EGR valve.


In answer to your recent question, I can respond as follows;


Disabling of Exhaust Gas Recirculation (EGR) systems on road vehicles is indeed illegal. Regulation 61a(3) of the Road Vehicles (Construction & Use) Regulations as amended make it an offence to use a vehicle that has been modified in such a way that it no longer complies with the emissions standards which it was designed to meet. EGR systems are commonly fitted to diesel cars and vans (and some petrol vehicles) to meet mandatory NOx emissions limits


Mark Heverin

Freight, Operator Licensing & Roadworthiness

DfT

My question was, is it legal to blank off the EGR valve, and was there anything in the pipeline as regards checking operation of EGR in the MOT test.

It may help you decide if you were considering blanking off the EGR valve.

[Grant2012]

okay so I read about how to clean it up but how do I know it needs doin?

[Chrispb]

Easiest way is to remove the air charge pipe from the EGR valve and look into it, using a mirror will help.

[insanitybeard]

Not that I'm advocating anybody rendering their EGR inoperative but as it stands (at least on older Diesels including the Mk2 Galaxy), it is only the exhaust gas opacity that is tested on Diesels during the MOT emissions test, there isn't a gas analysis so I can't see how it would be picked up at MOT time under the current test, unless it was blatantly obvious to the tester that you'd tampered with the system!

[Mirez]

Thats what I was getting at, if they look at notice its not plumbed in then they could fail it but its fairy unlikely

[1958steveflying]

Not that I'm advocating anybody rendering their EGR inoperative but as it stands (at least on older Diesels including the Mk2 Galaxy), it is only the exhaust gas opacity that is tested on Diesels during the MOT emissions test, there isn't a gas analysis so I can't see how it would be picked up at MOT time under the current test, unless it was blatantly obvious to the tester that you'd tampered with the system!

The EGR valve and it's associated components are not even part of the MOT and on that basis even if a tester noticed something had been tampered with it would only be an advisory ! I cant imagine it ever coming into the test as very late cars are less easy to mess with the EGR because the Ecu gets to know if it has been messed with. That means getting it written out of the Ecu by a mapper. Again not easy for the MOT to ever know it has been done. As far as I am aware the diesel emissions test is going to remain an opacity test and not a gas analysis so again not likely to get picked up. In the scheme of things I would prefer my engine was not ingesting the crap that builds up in the inlet as a result of the ridiculous EGR systems fitted than worry about the legality of it.

[jimmy-james]

When i cleaned mine (not as bad as the one pictured) i turned down the EGR rate as low as i could on VCDS to slow the clogging. Technically i'm legal but it won't clog up again so quickly :-)

[judgejeffery]

I suffered a clogged up EGR valve on a (Citroen Relay) Can I say that on this site. Since then I have used the product from powerenhancer  www.powerenhancer.co.uk
They are not cheap but everything they sells does what ii says on the tin, ie they work.  I have no relationship with the company, just speaking as a truly satisfied customer.  Ps get on their mailing list and every month or so they knock 25% off everything.

JJ

[Mirez]

When i cleaned mine (not as bad as the one pictured) i turned down the EGR rate as low as i could on VCDS to slow the clogging. Technically i'm legal but it won't clog up again so quickly :-)

I've done the same, I didn't like the idea of blanking it all off tbh. At some point I need to take it apart again and have a look to see what's happened in the last 40K

[054812]

Is it possible to confirm the steps to turn down the EGR function to a minimum ? There's such a multitude of information available in response to a search, and I'd prefer to trust the information that is posted by the knowledgeable types on here rather than take pot-luck. It looks like it just requires a registered copy of VCDS, and with it being easy to test and reverse if required I'd like to give it a try as a potential cure for some hesitancy. 

Thanks . Neil

[Mirez]

"With the engine warmed up and running at idle in neutral with all major accessories such as air conditioning turned off, connect the scan tool cable and start the scan tool software. Select engine control module. "Login" using 12233 as the access code. Select "adaptation" and go to adaptation block 3. Give the accelerator pedal a quick "blip" to ensure that the EGR remains turned on for the next minute while you perform the following steps. Note that the display shows a default adaptation value of 32768 and shows approximately 250 +/- 20 mg/stroke of air intake volume. (If it does not show this, you are either on the wrong screen, or you have an older ECU that differs slightly - see next paragraph.) If all is well, enter 33768 as the new adaptation value, and select "test". Note that the displayed air intake volume changes, usually to about 370 mg/stroke. The specification limit is 370 mg/stroke, so if you want to remain within OEM shop manual specifications for emission control reasons, you might have to enter a number slightly smaller than 33768. (If you don't care about road-legal NOx emission limits then leave it at 33768. [Depending on the usage cycle, NOx at this setting can be increased by as much as 40%]) If all is well and you have a seting that you are happy with which results in an intake air volume of 370 mg/stroke or just a hair less, enter "save". Now your intake manifold either will never clog, or will take so long that the engine will wear out first."

Thats the guide I followed

[technics100]

Any guides for the removal and cleaning of the egr?

[gregers]

https://www.fordmpv.com/smf2/ford-galaxy-reference-library/galaxy-mk2-intake-manifold-cleaning/msg85/#msg85


found in our reference library

[insanitybeard]

Here's the same inlet manifold as was attached to the clogged up EGR valve Mirez pictured at the start of this thread- quite an unbelievable amount of hard carbon sludge that I scraped out! There's still more in there but I just can't get to it to clean it fully, I'm going to take a slightly different approach- after scraping out as much of the shite as possible, I'm going to get the manifold bead blasted to clean out the remaining carbon, which should also bring the external surfaces up like new as well! Will post a picture when it's done (I'm prepping this manifold so that when I take my old one off I can bolt this one straight in instead of faffing around trying to clean the old one out before I can put the car back together).

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[Mirez]

Geez! You'll notice the difference if yours is anything like that Don't forget the EGR valve itself though bud...

[insanitybeard]

Rest assured the EGR valve will get the same treatment when it comes off...... well, maybe not bead blasted but thoroughly cleaned! A former colleague recommended a product by a German company (Tunap 129) for decarbonising, it's not a miracle product and you still need to scrape away as much carbon as possible initially but it does remove residue fairly well.

I'm hoping my occasional non-start after driving a only a short distance will be cured by the cleanup, I'm hoping it was down to a gunked up EGR valve or anti shudder flap. I'll put the mityvac on the valve once I've cleaned it and check it's holding vacuum, it has been leaking a bit of oil.