New drive shafts?

[benali]

These are my symptoms and I suspect new drive shafts needed. Any thoughts?

Whirring/droning sound from front driverââ,¬â,,¢s side above 30mph, if free-wheeling then sound stays the same when going round corners. However when you engage drive then the drone turns into a harsh vibration banging which is a lot worse when going round left hand bends. I've also noticed the whole front end of the car wobbling when going up gradual inclines above 50mph. On full lock at low speed thereââ,¬â,,¢s no noise at all.

I've had a new driverââ,¬â,,¢s side front wheel bearing and 2 new tires on front (110k miles on clock).

So do I just buy a pair of new driveshaft cv units  Ã,£55ish of fleabay?
How many hours would a mechanic charge to fit these?

[niall]

Def sounds like inner CV joint....one or both are prob a bit worn. Mostly inner CV's give trouble but not ruling out outer joints as problem. Passenger side wheel bearings can cause a roughness while driving while the CV joints cause the wobble. Could be both?
I'd say 2 hours labour in small garage....maybe 100 quid exl. Parts

N

[vpavlov]

Hello.
I have the same symptoms and worse.
Inspected the driveshafts and the inner cv joints have a play, especially the drivers' side.
I've read extensively about the options for repairing/replacing the driveshafts and below is my opinion.
First of all it seems with the Shalambra the inner cv joint is almost always the problem, very seldom the outer cv joint is the culprit. There is also an intermediate shaft with a rubber supported bearing you should check.
To the point now.
Have you read this:
https://www.fordmpv.com/smf2/ford-galaxy-reference-library/galaxy-inner-cv-jointboot-renewal-mk2/
https://www.fordmpv.com/smf2/ford-galaxy-reference-library/galaxy-mk2-gearbox-drive-stub-axel-and-half-shaft-%28inner-drive-shaft%29/msg57/#msg57
https://www.sgaf.de/content/radseitiges-gelenk-antriebswelle-wechseln-253319
https://www.sgaf.de/node/253255
https://www.sgaf.de/content/wechsel-gelenk-manschetten-undoder-zwischenwelle-253296
http://www.kelsey-forums.co.uk/cgi-bin/cmm/YaBB.pl?num=1266274519
https://www.fordmpv.com/smf2/ford-galaxy/mkii-tdi-drive-shaft-replacement/msg1532/#msg1532
https://www.fordmpv.com/smf2/ford-galaxy/drive-shafts/msg6927/#msg6927
https://www.sgaf.de/content/sharan-kurioses-vibrationsproblem-trotz-neuer-zwischenwelleantriebswellen-welche-laenge-pass
https://www.sgaf.de/content/hat-jemand-erfahrung-billig-antriebswellengelenken-349703
http://www.motor-talk.de/forum/kosten-fuer-antriebswellen-austauschen-passat-3bg-1-9-tdi-t2125939.html

You have several options (in case the driveshaft is the culprit):

- replace only the inner cv joint
         - 160 Euros for 1 pcs. of inner cv joint with returning the old cv joint at Seat official service - original part number 7M3498103X
         - 128 Euros for better Audi (GKN) inner cv joint at http://motomax.pl/eng/motomax-store.html

- replace the whole driveshaft with new one
        - Lobro - 260 Euros for the driveshaft, returning the old driveshaft to Lobro and deducting 90 Euros if it's up to Lobro standards for remanufacturing=170 Euros - this is the best option
        - Spidan - 245 Euros for the driveshaft, returning the old driveshaft to Spidan and deducting 60 Euros if it's up to Lobro standards for remanufacturing=185 Euros- this is also very good
        -SKF VKJC7004 - 150 Euros for a new one is the lowest I have found on the Internet-there seems to be confusion about the length of the driveshaft - the SKF is 507 mm the original 537 mm.
        -some remanufactured driveshafts from Triscan, ERA Benelux etc. - check the internet
        -cheap driveshafts from Drynda -   http://shop.autoteile-drynda.de/ - not so favourable reviews on the net
        -the lowest priced for EBay - not recommended - read the above links

Hope that helps.

[benali]

Thanks vpavlov for all the info! Just need to find the time to read and digest it all, why's nothing in life simple any more, lol!
Was hoping that someone would have said something positive about the Ã,£54 jandr pair of shafts, ridiculously cheap. TBH they come with 2 year warranty, and I'm most probably only keeping the car for 2 more years, however I noticed the one thread saying they only lasted 13K miles, so not sure, anyone else got any experience of these?
Next option for me would be the motomax cv joint version (I used there stub axle and very impressed). Is this more labour though to fit the cv joint to the driveshaft though?
Not sure on the other options, is it cost effective returning old units to European destinations?
Thanks again.

[vpavlov]

Hello benali.
The opinions on J&R driveshafts vary. I would be much more interested to purchase cheap - my monthly salary is ar. 400 GBP, but I refrained from using cheap driveshafts. I have ordered the motomax cv joints yesterday and will be changing them in a week or so. Certainly more time consuming is to change the inner or outer cv joint as you have to disassemble the driveshaft and install the new cv joint snd boot.  I chose to replace the outer cv joint boot along with the inner cv joint and ordered a Spidan cv joint boot.
As I've already said Spidan and Lobro driveshafts are made in the same factory and just relabeled. The mother firm for both of them is GKN - the OE supplier of driveshafts to VW and other car manufacturers. I've read a lot about them in the forums and nobody has had any problems with them. The prices for Lobro and Spidan I quoted are valid in Bulgaria. You can easily find the distributors/importers of Lobro and Spidan in UK and inquire them for prices. Both of them require returning the old driveshaft. Both of them are remanufactured - i.e. they are old driveshafts that are measured, cleaned, with changed cv joint etc. I was going to purchase the Lobro driveshafts but the importer said that there is only one piece availale in a warehouse in Germany (doubt that). So I chose to use the Motomax inner cv joints.
One option I was very tempted to use is SKF VKJC4007 driveshafts. This is a new driveshaft, not remanufactured. SKf is known as one of the best in its business - bearings. The price here http://www.oscaro.com/cardan-skf-vkjc-7004-1951750-13-p is very good. There were two things that stopped me: the length of 507 mm instead of 537 mm and one opinion in a car forum that the SKF driveshaft looked exactly the same as other cheap Ebay offerings, whereas the Spidan driveshaft looked first class and different.

[niall]

Hi Benali
I had previously fitted two new replacement Motomax inner cv joints to fix the 'wobble under load' problem.
I was getting a roughness through the chassis about 12 months later. So thinking it was the Motomax cv joints that were gone again, I bought two of the JandR driveshafts. I fitted one thinking it was the cause of a roughness while driving(it was the wheel bearing as it turned out). The 'wobble' returned on the test drive after fitting the JandR shaft. So I replaced it with the original shaft that had the Motomax cv joint and hey presto the 'wobble' was gone again!
In short, JandR shafts are cheap...really cheap..and look very respectable...however the spec on them is just not good enough for Galaxys etc. The Galaxy is intolerant of ANY play/wear on the inner cv joint. When you disassemble the 'worn' cv joint it's hard to believe that the tiny amount of wear causes that amount of wobble.
Spend the money on the Motomax cv joints. They work.
SKF are top quality alright.
By the way, to change the inner cv joints....the shaft on the drivers side need not be removed completely...just the gearbox side(on and automatic anyway). However the shaft on the passenger side does need to be removed. So maybe crawl under the car and try the drivers side first? You will need a socket set, a torque wrench/breaker bar, and a set of splined(triple square) bits or just the  12mm bit, Jack stands, Car Jack.
Best of luck..

N

PS...Re wheel bearings....it's nearly always the passenger side bearing that goes due to the potholes etc. on that side of the road..for Ireland anyway!! On my second pass bearing and suspecting bad again. FYI the FAG brand of bearing is the best.

[Mirez]

The Galaxy is intolerant of ANY play/wear on the inner cv joint.

100% second that, they are fussy as hell with the driveline. I'd also second that I have motomax inner CV's on mine and they have been perfect with great build quality.

[benali]

OK, 2 motomax inner cv's delivered Ã,£226 (ouch).
Gonna get a mechanic to do this, what roughly 3 hours?
What else is worth doing while its all stripped out, bearing in mind its done 110k and it would be nice to be trouble free for the next 3 years?
Do the outer cv's not cause any problems then, seems strange always the inners?
Cheers!

[insanitybeard]

It's certainly worth checking the intermediate shaft splines whilst it's stripped if you haven't done so already, as well as the intermediate shaft support bearing, the condition and security of the outer CV boots, and maybe the nearside front wheel bearing (the one that hasn't been changed). It is usually the inner joints that cause trouble, they are of a different design to the outer joints so possibly they're more prone to wear because they've got less load bearing surface to transmit drive than the outer joints, or they fail because their boots are more prone to split allowing dirt and water into the joint, which if not rectified quickly will destroy the joint early- I've had to replace both of my inner CV boots, but the outer ones are absolutely fine. Don't forget to renew the large hub to driveshaft bolts!

[benali]

Can someone give me an ebay link for the large hub to driveshaft bolts. I guess the motomax joints aren't supplied with these bolts? I've sent them an email also requesting a bit of discount for two as I assume the 128euro is each, but they don't seem to be replying yet.
Also might as well replace the outer boots I guess while the shafts are off, anyone again give me a link to a good quality one?
Thanks for all the help!

[insanitybeard]

Which type of hub bolts do you have fitted? Do you have the 27mm external type or the type that need a large internal hex key:

[attachimg=1]

As for CV boots, GSF usually have a reasonable range and choice of quality, just crunch in your vehicle details.....

[benali]

Ah right, 27mm external type, by the looks.

[insanitybeard]

Can't see any of them listed on but they should be easy enough to get hold of from a Ford parts department, the Ford part no. is 7201538.

[vpavlov]

Hello benali.
A also wanted to replace the outer cv joint boots (although they seem OK) during the replacement of the inner cv joint with a Motomax ones. For this purpose I purchased a pair of Spidan outer cv joint boots - part number 21575 from their catalog. Since my driveshafts are original GKN I decided that my best bet is to use Spidan (or Lobro) since all three are the same firm. The Spidan and other manufacturers' boots are usually supplied with the bolt in question included. The bolt is  M16X1,5X87X68, whatever that means - see here http://autonovad.ua/index.html?id=cat&m=4&ml=737&my=3550&pc=5&pg=384604 (16 mm. outer diameter, thread step is 1.5 mm, length of the bolt 87 mm, length of the thread 68 mm, corect me if I'm wrong). I purchased the outer cv joint boots along with other suspension parts for my Alhambra from here: https://fuerst-autoteile.de/
Bear in mind that this online shop gets not so favourable reviews.
I also used this: http://www.daparto.de/ to search for the best price of parts in Germany.

Can someone give me an ebay link for the large hub to driveshaft bolts. I guess the motomax joints aren't supplied with these bolts? I've sent them an email also requesting a bit of discount for two as I assume the 128euro is each, but they don't seem to be replying yet.
Also might as well replace the outer boots I guess while the shafts are off, anyone again give me a link to a good quality one?
Thanks for all the help!

[benali]

Just read an old post from Mirez recommending lower ball joint replacement as well. Mine have never been done before anyway. Any thoughts? Wheres best source for these?

[insanitybeard]

As per the above link I posted to GSF, they sell them (they're listed in the 'Steering & Suspension' section, just enter your vehicle details first). It's up to you, if they've not been changed previously then it may be worth changing them and also if the rubber boot that seals the joint has split, however, if you remove the ball joint from the wheel knuckle by removing the two (6mm internal hex key IIRC) bolts that retain the ball joint 'wings' to the knuckle (one on either side) so that the ball joint stays sat in the arm, there is no need to remove the large (18mm?) nut that retains the ball joint in the lower arm itself and you should cause no damage to the joint itself by removing it in this way, meaning you can just refit it if it's not worn or damaged.

[Bendling]

A year and a bit with J & R shafts, and the clunk on take up is getting unbearable. Left side is still OK, but the intermediate shaft and inner joint on the right side have a ridiculous amount of play.
I'm going with the better engineered Motomax intermediate shaft, and also fancy the Audi shaft inner joint they offer, but i"m choking on the total price!
Does anyone know which model this inner joint comes from, or a part number or source for a quality GKN or SKF inner joint assy?
Plenty of outer CV joints available, and best price for genuine GKN I found was Eurocarparts. But I find nothing for quality branded inner joints?
Can anyone help?

[benali]

Thanks for all the help! My new motamax cv's are fitted Ã,£80 labour inc oil change. All vibration now gone. Just a rubbing noise left, which appears to be a o/s sticking brake caliper, mechanic advised best to get a new caliper Ã,£90parts. Anyone now of source for recon units. Is it best to do both as o/s side rubs heavy cant spin wheel 1 turn, n/s side rubs slightly can spin wheel approx 2 turns?

[Mirez]

Good news!

Its normally the slider pins that just need releasing, greasing and refitting. It's unusual to need a new caliper TBH.

[benali]

Well I've had the calipers all cleaned and re-greased and brakes working well.
Now I may be paranoid but I still reckon I've got an abnormal 'whirring' noise from the drive shaft area. So I've just jacked the car up again, to see what else I can find to worry about. Is it normal that I can get about 2 free wheel spins from the passenger side wheel but only about 1.5 free wheel spins from the drivers side (giving both sides a good hard spin). Obviously, as you can tell I'm no mechanic, but it just seems that the drivers side drive shaft is a lot tighter than the passengers. Any thoughts?

[Mirez]

Do you mean spinning the wheel with the car off the ground?
I've never tried comparing them tbh but I would suspect that's perfectly normal. Not only is their much more mass on the drivers side to overcome but you'll be going through the diff which will be setup to split power accordingly.

[benali]

Yes spinning wheels with car up.
Oh well sounds like it's about normal. Sure I've got some sort of drivetrain noise though, may swap tyres front to back at weekend. Everything else has been  done tbf. It's a light whirring type noise worst at about 40~50mph.

[benali]

This car is just doesn't want to be fixed!
Its now developed into a constant whining drone from front drivers side driveshaft area. Started as being slight noise which was noticeable after new inner CV's fitted and has now become virtually unbearable. I've got my patient mechanic to strip it all again but just cant see anything wrong. His only thought is that when I had the drivers side wheel bearing fitted about 6 months ago (another garage) that it is possible for them to put it in out of true before finally bottoming out. If this happened then hub is damaged and would cause the problems I've got.
Any thoughts?

[insanitybeard]

They would have had to be pretty brutal to force the hub into the wheelbearing without it being square. More likely in my opinion that they damaged the new wheelbearing in the course of fitting it, or they damaged the hub when removing it from the old bearing.

Is it definitely the wheelbearing causing the noise? Does the noise persist even without any load on the drivetrain- i.e, is it present even when coasting and the clutch pedal down?

[benali]

Yes when free wheeling it is still there. Mechanic is pulling hair out, just cant see what else it may be.

[insanitybeard]

If it's there when coasting then a wheelbearing is prime suspect, the only thing I would say is that it's not always easy to be 100% sure which side the noise is coming from due to the way the noise transmits through the body etc- when my wheelbearing packed up last Christmas I thought it was the offside one at fault but when I jacked the vehicle up and checked it was actually the nearside one on the way out.

[benali]

Turned out to be damaged hub. New (salvaged) hub fitted and noise gone. Now got abs light on!.
So need a new sensor apparently, original sensor destroyed on removal. Ã,£10 off ebay
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/301268199416?_trksid=p2060778.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
Seems cheap are these ok anyone know?

[Chrispb]

If it's the sensor for the N/S/F check that the sensor and brake pad wear lead are not combined if so then the one you have shown is not correct.

Like this one

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Front-Left-ABS-Speed-Sensor-for-VW-SHARAN-FORD-GALAXY-ALHAMBRA-7M3927807H-/261388437827?pt=UK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM&hash=item3cdbf70943

[benali]

Ah right, thanks for that. So brake sensor is only on front left. correct?

[benali]

Brake wear sensor I mean is only on front left?

[Chrispb]

Brake pad wear sensor is only on N/S /F and O/S/R wheel

[benali]

Well, still struggling with this. Only just got round to fitting new sensor. 1st problem was getting the old one out. Hub off again and knock out from the underside.
2nd problem, new sensor had 4 pin connector, old one had 2, checked with supplier who said same sensor just swap the connector from the old 2 pin one. Ok, all fitted and clear code with vagcom.
1st drive, 100 yds and pulsing pedal and Uh oh, abs light back on. Vagcom says '008 Implausible signal Intermittent' front right.
Mechanic says maybe to do with with magnets inside hub and suggests trying another hub?
Any ideas anyone?

[Mirez]

Magnets inside the hub? WTF's he on about?

The ABS System "reads" a toothed wheel located on the hub to generate basic on/off logic and therefore detecting movement. The sensor generates a magnetic field and the rotating wheel effects this but there isn't anything in the hub other then the sensor!

Sounds very much like a dodgy sensor or, its not fitted correctly (dir/rust causing it to sit up from its position). I'd like to know more about this 2 pin 4 pin malarkey, how is it now connected? Are wires from the ABS Sensor now not connected then? You can use VCDS  in measuring blocks to see exactly what that sensor is (or isn't) reading...

Also they are incorrect in that they are the same, the earlier versions are 4 pin the later versions are 2 pin. Have a look at the end of that sensor and you'll probably find its all be scraped away as they were also 5mm longer!!!

[benali]

Sensor was identical apparently except for 4 pin connector which was swapped over to 2 pin connector from old sensor by mechanic.
Supplier said they had no 2 pin connectors left and it will be fine to substitute old 2 pin connector. Only 2 wires in sensor by the look.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/301268199416

So a hub is not going to effect the abs. Its either the sensor or the ring?

Not sure about measuring blocks on my free Vagcom, what will that pinpoint?
Cheers.

[Mirez]

Well unless they measured them, they'll look identical - wouldn't trust what the seller says tbh!

No, the hub won't effect the ABS unless the bearing has failed.

If you measure the inputs being given from that sensor you should be able to see what its reading - this will give you an indication of whether its reading too fast, too slow or (as I suspect) not at all.

[benali]

Well the old one was destroyed on removal as is the norm it appears. Is there a dimension that can be checked from sensor to ring. I suppose measure it off the other side.
I'll get laptop on it tomorrow see what readings I can get.
Cheers.

[benali]

Checking my new abs sensor. Its been fitted fully in and looks like its just bottoming out on the ring just taken the surface of the ring by the looks, cant get the sensor backed out now, bloody solid, told me it was cleaned up and greased! FFs!
Measured the other side at about .015". What do they need to be set at to work?

[Mirez]

They're set by the hub, as I said earlier the 4pin is 5mm longer then the two pin hence the gap isn't there and its bottomed out - replace it with the correct sensor.

[benali]

Thanks. The sensor is only about 0.5mm longer though not 5mm (wierd). Was thinking I could just back it off a bit to give the right air gap. How crucial is the gap and what should it be. Like I say measures about .015" on the other side.

[Mirez]

Its a plastic housing though, if you say the metal ring looks like its been a little worn, what was once the end of that ABS sensor is probably long gone! Are you measuring in situ or have you actually removed it?

[benali]

I've got a metal square showing on the end of my sensor now, was it plastic covered as new? ( I really can't remember). Yes measured the distance in situ with feeler gauge.
The ring is only polished up for about 180Ã,° the other half is untouched, so must be running slightly out.
Vagcom is now showing electrical fault on that sensor since messing with it yesterday. (PS apologies for making something so so simple so difficult)
Think I'll just buy another sensor anyway!