Rising fuel costs

[Mirez]

Just got home from a trundle to Bristol, the M4 Services at J19 are now charging 172.9 for Diesel!!

Filled up at Morrisons where its still 148.9 but the queue was 20mins to get in.

With the Russia/Ukraine conflict and inflation, I wonder where this will end up?

[brianh]

Try checking out the premium prices for diesel if you really want to make your eyes water. Everyone knows services are expensive, though most of their custom is from business fuel cards, who pay a completely different price, not all of it is.

I run on Autogas (when I can buy it, which at the moment is an issue as they don't seem to be delivering any to the forecourts), I've seen it rise from a lowest point of 48.9 a litre a couple of years ago, to the only local place having it at the moment being 89.9 a litre. The local Shell and BP a mile from me are currently £1.569 a litre for regular diesel. Conversely, I've found some of the service areas to be cheaper than elsewhere for autogas!

I can only see it going up unfortunately.

[SirDavidAlhambra]

Do you think there could be any shortages again?

Wondering if I should fill up the Jerry cans, just in case.

[brianh]

Doubtful, though who can tell.

[Mirez]

I kinda think the opposite, Crude has just reached a record high and if old nobhead decides to pull the plug on Europe in retaliation then the supply will be insignificant to the demand. Granted we don't get much from Russia but the knock on affect will be noticeable and if the last fuel 'issue' taught us anything, it's that people are morons!

[johnnyroper]

I kinda think the opposite, Crude has just reached a record high and if old nobhead decides to pull the plug on Europe in retaliation then the supply will be insignificant to the demand. Granted we don't get much from Russia but the knock on affect will be noticeable and if the last fuel 'issue' taught us anything, it's that people are morons!

Indeed they are morons,first sniff of fuel issues the Jerry cans come out and people stock pile it effectively stopping other people going about their business. The mrs saw something on facef**k just after the Russians started playing silly buggers that queues were forming at stations around the south west.

[Mirez]

To be fair, that was probably me filling up the cayenne. 130l tank takes forever to fill the bugger 😄😄

[SirDavidAlhambra]

I wonder if I should get a few more Jerry cans, just in case. They're always handy to have and right now seems like a good time to be keeping a reserve supply. During the last fuel shortage they sold out quickly too, they were virtually impossible to buy (the good big metal ones I mean).

Also I have a feeling that this summer will be a good time to stock up on wood and start drying it out, ready for next winter.

Fuel is becoming very expensive!

Any other fuel saving tips or methods of reducing fuel costs gratefully received!

[johnnyroper]

To be fair, that was probably me filling up the cayenne. 130l tank takes forever to fill the bugger 😄😄

😂😂 130l tank on that beast,wallet takes a pounding at the pumps now then! What sort of mpg do you get out of that car?

[johnnyroper]

I wonder if I should get a few more Jerry cans, just in case. They're always handy to have and right now seems like a good time to be keeping a reserve supply. During the last fuel shortage they sold out quickly too, they were virtually impossible to buy (the good big metal ones I mean).

Also I have a feeling that this summer will be a good time to stock up on wood and start drying it out, ready for next winter.

Fuel is becoming very expensive!

Any other fuel saving tips or methods of reducing fuel costs gratefully received!

One of the reasons they sold out quickly was people buying fuel they didn't actually need and storing it in fuel cans. The fuel is sitting in someone's garage but key workers couldn't fill their cars to go and save lives..... very poor situation and extremely selfish actions from some people.

[Mirez]

Yeah "Extended Range Tank" was fitted from the factory, it's actually the first time I've brimmed it but thought I'd get some 'cheap' fuel before it likely goes up. 34/35mpg is pretty much the happy place for the Cayenne, I got 46 driving it gently but the way it delivers the power is quite intoxicating so I keep end up mashing the throttle

Sadly that's exactly the problem, I remember waiting behind some knob in an estate car whilst he filled the tank on that and then opened the boot to fill what must have been 20 odd cans. I often wonder if he's used it all by now lol

@SirDavidAlhambra, Having done a 'Driving Economically' course for both my current and previous employers, it's something to consider if you really want to 'up' your MPG and save some money. Anticipation is a massive part of economic driving and both companies saved far more then the course cost with the savings across their fleet.

[Chrispb]

Having done a 'Driving Economically' course for both my current and previous employers, it's something to consider if you really want to 'up' your MPG and save some money. Anticipation is a massive part of economic driving and both companies saved far more then the course cost with the savings across their fleet.

Yes we had that when I was driving for Sainsbury's you could get from anywhere around 7 to 8 mpg up to 10 to 12 mpg quite a saving on a whole fleet.

[johnnyroper]

Yeah "Extended Range Tank" was fitted from the factory, it's actually the first time I've brimmed it but thought I'd get some 'cheap' fuel before it likely goes up. 34/35mpg is pretty much the happy place for the Cayenne, I got 46 driving it gently but the way it delivers the power is quite intoxicating so I keep end up mashing the throttle

Sadly that's exactly the problem, I remember waiting behind some knob in an estate car whilst he filled the tank on that and then opened the boot to fill what must have been 20 odd cans. I often wonder if he's used it all by now lol

@SirDavidAlhambra, Having done a 'Driving Economically' course for both my current and previous employers, it's something to consider if you really want to 'up' your MPG and save some money. Anticipation is a massive part of economic driving and both companies saved far more then the course cost with the savings across their fleet.

That's not a bad mpg return for a big 4x4,the little giulietta I am currently using barely manages that and it's only a 1.4 turbo.
Must admit though I am not really in to chasing the mpg these days hence why the giulietta will be replaced with a bigger engined car this year at some point.

[SirDavidAlhambra]

One of the reasons they sold out quickly was people buying fuel they didn't actually need and storing it in fuel cans. The fuel is sitting in someone's garage but key workers couldn't fill their cars to go and save lives..... very poor situation and extremely selfish actions from some people.

Yes, it is a tricky situation... I think most people want to do the right thing but at the same time they don't want to end up 'up the creek without a paddle' themselves. I have to confess I thought it would be safest to stock up as soon as the queues started, just in case (because needed the car for school runs and suchlike)... I was actually assaulted at one petrol station when someone saw me filling up my jerry cans but to be honest there were no rules at the time preventing that so it wasn't really their place to do it even though one could argue they were morally right perhaps

[SirDavidAlhambra]

@SirDavidAlhambra, Having done a 'Driving Economically' course for both my current and previous employers, it's something to consider if you really want to 'up' your MPG and save some money. Anticipation is a massive part of economic driving and both companies saved far more then the course cost with the savings across their fleet.

These courses look amazing, I have been googling them and will now be trying to master the art of the "California roll" (driving slowly up to traffic lights so that they are back on green by the time I get there)! He He

[Mirez]

Exactly, I've had an 'eco' Golf as a company car and it was the most boring gutless piece of crap I've ever had the misery of driving. I don't do the miles to worry about MPG really and I strongly suspect we are in the dying years of motoring with regulations, electric controls and road laws all removing the 'fun' of driving so yeah, why not have a nice car whilst you still can? I'll probably sell this one come august and go for the V8 or a Pan Turbo just for that reason!


Its an art driving like that without causing traffic disruption, that's the skill.

[johnnyroper]

Exactly, I've had an 'eco' Golf as a company car and it was the most boring gutless piece of crap I've ever had the misery of driving. I don't do the miles to worry about MPG really and I strongly suspect we are in the dying years of motoring with regulations, electric controls and road laws all removing the 'fun' of driving so yeah, why not have a nice car whilst you still can? I'll probably sell this one come august and go for the V8 or a Pan Turbo just for that reason!

I suspect you are right about how motoring is going to go,electric crap forced on us with lots of electronics to essentially drive a certain way. It seems Ford are already doing this to a fashion lad at work has just got a brand new transit that has speed limit sign recognition. Caught him out at first until he realised it's defaulted to on,can be switched off in the settings but no doubt it will be something that's on and not able to be turned off by the end user in the coming years.
I quite fancy an Alfa Romeo Giulia quadrafoglio, 500bhp of Ferrari v6 twin turbo power is rather appealing. Given the mrs has an economical car and I have the work van the 20-25mpg wouldn't really be a major issue to me. The fun factor outweighs the fuel cost factor.

[Mirez]

Yes Alpha so some really obscure cars that are bloody lovely and I keep forgetting to look at them when I change motors! The Tonale looks especially like my kind of car so might have to test one of those when they are eventually released if hopefully, they've decided on a powerful engine in the range.

The Stelvio I really liked but the biggest engine you can get in diesel trim is just 210bhp, not great for towing

[insanitybeard]

I know motorway services always take the p1$$ with fuel prices but the Moto services in Exeter had both regular diesel and petrol well on the way to £1.80 a litre last Saturday. Staggering.

I'm not a fan of this forced automation/ 'assitive' technology on vehicles at all, I fully understand that some people who e.g. have to commute through miles of stop start traffic might find it a boon but as somebody who actually enjoys driving, I think constant interference from the vehicle is a dangerous thing, because it makes people a) complacent and b) lazy. Like these flippin' speed limiters that are supposedly going to be a mandatory requirement on new vehicles from later this year. Still only classed as a 'assistive' technology though so the onus is still on the driver to control the vehicle but surely (in my opinion) the more of this stuff you inflict on the driver the harder this becomes to do with the vehicle interfering or flashing constant warnings at you when you dare to step out of line. My biggest gripe is that the choice and control is slowly being removed from me.

I had a motorbike in my younger years and have recently returned to motorcycling (I never wanted to give it up in the first place), my bike is 20 years old and is probably one of the last carburetted models made- carbs, no catalyst, no ABS and no gimmicks. Just the way I like it! (And this isn't me saying that technology that increases safety or reduces emissions is bad, but sometimes less is more. And simplicity can be a wonderful thing)

[Mirez]

Couldn't agree more, I'm off to move a 1993 Mondeo tomorrow although if its any good I might buy it from myself seeing as the chap wants it gone. Firstly, because it was my second car and I loved it and secondly, because the 2.0 Petrol was just an engine and gearbox with nothing else fancy on it. Retro is the way to go lol

[johnnyroper]

Yes Alpha so some really obscure cars that are bloody lovely and I keep forgetting to look at them when I change motors! The Tonale looks especially like my kind of car so might have to test one of those when they are eventually released if hopefully, they've decided on a powerful engine in the range.

The Stelvio I really liked but the biggest engine you can get in diesel trim is just 210bhp, not great for towing

I think the tonale is just a Jeep compass in drag,with the vauxhall/PSA link I expect Alfa to start releasing more models to the market.
They have always got a bad press for rust and electrical issues but the later generation cars are so much better. Seem to recall they hired an engineer from bmw who improves things massively.
Not too sure where they sourced the 2.2 diesel lump but I have read it's not actually that bad in the giulia and stelvio with the ZF8 gearbox. Haven't really looked in to it as I am probably going with petrol next time. Even the 2.0 in the giulia in veloce trim is no slouch it's 280bhp out of the box
I have had a few Alfa over the years and with exception of the lardy 159 they really are fun to drive

[brianh]

I know motorway services always take the p1$$ with fuel prices but the Moto services in Exeter had both regular diesel and petrol well on the way to £1.80 a litre last Saturday. Staggering.

I'm not a fan of this forced automation/ 'assitive' technology on vehicles at all, I fully understand that some people who e.g. have to commute through miles of stop start traffic might find it a boon but as somebody who actually enjoys driving, I think constant interference from the vehicle is a dangerous thing, because it makes people a) complacent and b) lazy. Like these flippin' speed limiters that are supposedly going to be a mandatory requirement on new vehicles from later this year. Still only classed as a 'assistive' technology though so the onus is still on the driver to control the vehicle but surely (in my opinion) the more of this stuff you inflict on the driver the harder this becomes to do with the vehicle interfering or flashing constant warnings at you when you dare to step out of line. My biggest gripe is that the choice and control is slowly being removed from me.

I had a motorbike in my younger years and have recently returned to motorcycling (I never wanted to give it up in the first place), my bike is 20 years old and is probably one of the last carburetted models made- carbs, no catalyst, no ABS and no gimmicks. Just the way I like it! (And this isn't me saying that technology that increases safety or reduces emissions is bad, but sometimes less is more. And simplicity can be a wonderful thing)

£1.759 for regular diesel at Fleet services on the M3 today, £1.739 for petrol. Premium 10p more a litre. Autogas on the other hand, 66.9p a litre

Couldn't agree more, I'm off to move a 1993 Mondeo tomorrow although if its any good I might buy it from myself seeing as the chap wants it gone. Firstly, because it was my second car and I loved it and secondly, because the 2.0 Petrol was just an engine and gearbox with nothing else fancy on it. Retro is the way to go lol

I scrapped a 2000 model mk2 Mondeo a few years back as it got to the point of being more rust than solid bodywork and wasn't worth welding up any further, it had clocked up 267k at that point though! Still got the engine from it though it was the 1.8 rather than the 2.0. The 2.0 engines are wanted more than the 1.8 for folk wanting to do a build etc with custom manifolds etc. At least I sold one very easily through ebay for that purpose, the 1.8 doesn't tend to fetch as much interest.

[SirDavidAlhambra]

would it now be worth converting to auto-gas do you think

[johnnyroper]

Depends how many miles you do and how long you plan on keeping the car as the whether you will see any benefit. Also factor in yours is a diesel which can now be converted but it is more specialist than a petrol so assume install costs are higher providing the 1.9pd can actually be converted.

On an old car I do not see any benefit at all in converting unless it's a gas guzzling v8 classic that will be around for many years,even then it's debatable in my opinion.

No disrespect your car will probably expire before you reach break even point on an auto gas conversion

[Mirez]

Well just been past the same garage in another car, stopped to fill that up and its now 156.9 - that's inflation right there! 8p in 4 days that's gone up.. wow!

[johnnyroper]

£2 a litre by the summer I suspect

[SirDavidAlhambra]

I don't do huge mileage really so as you say it's probably best to keep it as a diesel powered motor car

However lately I have been practicing the art of driving really fuel efficiently... steady acceleration, minimal braking and so on. It's actually quite a fun way to drive!

[brianh]

Depends how many miles you do and how long you plan on keeping the car as the whether you will see any benefit. Also factor in yours is a diesel which can now be converted but it is more specialist than a petrol so assume install costs are higher providing the 1.9pd can actually be converted.

On an old car I do not see any benefit at all in converting unless it's a gas guzzling v8 classic that will be around for many years,even then it's debatable in my opinion.

No disrespect your car will probably expire before you reach break even point on an auto gas conversion

On a diesel the conversion works differently to the petrol, its effectively a fuel supplement to clean up the burn by adding a small amount of lpg. so your still using diesel for most of the fuel. The kit still costs a similar amount, but this means the payback is much longer overall.

Personally I'd not bother with it on a diesel

It works for me for a number of reasons, though the main downside is finding somewhere to fill up these days.

Main reasons it works for me are
The petrol Galaxy mk2 is ULEZ and CAZ compliant, the Diesel is not (I end up in the ULEZ a few times a month, the Birmingham CAZ occasionally as well)
I already had the kit from a previous vehicle with an unused tank going spare
I'd had 4 other cars on gas at the point of converting this one
I do quite high mileage - Kit was fitted for just short of 3 years now, and its done 62k in that time.
I know where to get gas from, understand how it works and know who to contact if I need anything to do with getting it setup or certified sorted out.
It means I also don't need to worry about any issues with Dual mass flywheels or Diesel particulate filters as the petrol version has neither of those.

Its not for everyone by any means, and not something I'd recommend to many people unless at least some of the above points apply to them as well. As said, its more commonly seen on thirsty V8's than smaller cars these days, though I have one of those as well. Its dying out somewhat as its much more difficult to convert direct injection petrol engines than older port injected engines. Theres also downsides like being unable to use the channel tunnel for reasons that don't make a lot of sense (as you can take a campervan over with a red vapour tank fitted but not one that has exactly the same tank in black with a different valve on it to fuel the engine). Ferries haven't been any issue though.

I'd suspect seeing near the £2 a litre comment for petrol/diesel is probabbly somewhere near what will happen. I'm already seeing £1.50 ish for petrol at normal forecourts, and around 5p more for diesel. Autogas has a wide variation, the local garage here (that I rarely use) has gone up in the last few days by 10p a litre, taking it upto 99.9p now.

Costco are a few pence cheaper for petrol or diesel than anywhere else if you are near one of their forecourts (there is one in Bristol near the M5) and qualify for membership. They do not have many forecourts however. They were also one of the few places that it was possible to fill up without major queues when the last lot of panic buying took hold.

[johnnyroper]

It seems some petrol stations are exploiting the fuel situation, shell by me was £1.899 a litre yesterday when everywhere else is around the 1.70 mark. Had to double check I hadn't used v power diesel by mistake

[Mirez]

I agree, I genuinely turned the car around yesterday to double check the price at the Shell garage on Bath Road, Box - £1.999 for diesel which is just pure exploitation of the situation. What I don't get is people are stupid enough to pay it!

[SirDavidAlhambra]

Hopefully when it gets to £2 there will be some protests like when it passed the £1 milestone.

I think a lot of the price is tax which goes to the government to pay for pensions and suchlike. If we could reduce the size of the government then we could save money perhaps. I think it would also be a great idea to have a sort of "company song" for civil servants whereby, every morning and without exception, they have to pledge allegiance to serving the public to the best of their ability, to be thoughtful in how they spend the taxpayers' money,  and then do some kind of mantra where they thank the taxpayer for funding their salaries. Some would call it authoritarian or even brainwashing, but I think this would be good because it would remind them who they work for and that they should not waste so much money.

As an aside, someone smashed my wing mirror off today so I had to buy a new one from Euros at a cost of £24!! Thankfully the housing was OK, the mirror itself just fell out quite neatly and smashed itself up. I suspect it was a van driver because the glass cracked most at the top.

[johnnyroper]

I agree, I genuinely turned the car around yesterday to double check the price at the Shell garage on Bath Road, Box - £1.999 for diesel which is just pure exploitation of the situation. What I don't get is people are stupid enough to pay it!

Luckily the company foot the bill so I was quite happy to stick 64 litres in,had it been my own car that pump would have been stowed and I would have gone to Esso down yarnbrook instead. Tesco in trowvegas was bone dry today

[brianh]

Its not so much the size of the government thats the issue, its the dodgy deals to benefit those in government and their mates that are more the issue there.

Its getting bad when you can't even fill your tank with pay at pump as it doesn't pre auth enough to fill the tank though, most only do a max of £99. Had to fill up the petrol a couple of days ago, £30 to top up a 3/4 full gauge and it didn't even completely fill it was a surprise to see just how much its gone up. Much prefer tanks like the below for cost!

It seems that some of the stations are struggling to get deliveries, I noticed the Applegreen at Hayling Island last night had no fuel at all left, and were just getting a tanker delivery when I stopped in there to grab something to eat, seemed they didn't get a large quantity delivered even so and it looked like all they got was diesel.

[Grant2012]

Just filled the landy up from almost empty, 3 weeks ago it cost £93 today is was £106

[SirDavidAlhambra]

I hear that in Saudi Arabia petrol is cheaper than water.

I wonder how all the Americans are getting on, they drive really long distances and their cars get terrible gas mileage.

[Grant2012]

It's still cheap over there or at least cheap by comparison to us and since they make a lot of it themselves I dont think it will be affected so much. I don't see the gov lowering the tax rate any time soon, they don't want petrol or diesel on the road so this is heaven for them

[mikewilson]

Crude below £100/barrel, now, so should be starting to go down.  Since being made redundant/retiring in 2020, I went from £200/month on fuel to virtually nowt.  20,000 miles a year to less than 2000.  For the last five years or so, I've been buying fuel almost exclusively from Costco.  Premium diesel is presently ~£1.50/litre.  You can usually guess that it will be 3-4p/litre cheaper than the supermarket dregs stuff that I would only use for cleaning.  A noticeable difference in running and mpg with it.