Judder and misfire on 1.0 ford ecoboost

[Mirez]

Anyone got any experience with the little ecoboost? I'm looking to diagnose (or at least narrow the options) for a misfiring ecoboost fiesta zetec-s.

I have no history of the vehicle so don't know the circumstances of the fault but its been sat for 4 months on my trailer after I recovered it for a colleague. They've now buggered off back to Australia and said its mine to do what I want with so, after charging the battery it fired right up but with a lumpy idle. Since no MIL light or fault codes, I replaced the plugs and packs but it's still misfiring, cylinder one plug was noticeably oily on the tip. You can unplug coil one and it drives the same so it's definitely that cylinder - remarkably well actually for a 2 cylinder! Interesting, even then no MIL or fault code but unplugging pack 2 or 3 causes it to stall and log a code.

Coolant seems fine, holding level.

So a compression test is next but I'm thinking it's either head gasket or piston rings. Any thoughts from anyone? Also, comments on repair this engine or replace it should it come to it?

Cheers!

[brianh]

I've not had dealings with them directly, But I did work with someone who had his entire engine swapped out after cracking something (was either the block or the head, can't remember which now). I'd suspect some of his issues would have been down to the car not really being suited to doing 200+ miles a day 5 days a week though.

Any idea of the miles on it? I've generally found Ford pistion rings are good for around 250k though thats been on bigger engines than the one your dealing with, Getting hold of them might be a challenge, head gasket might be easier, though I'd be inclined to see what your compression test shows, Does it have shimmed tappets or hydraulic ones? If they are shimmed ones, how does the clearence on them look?

Mil lights it seems Ford really don't like wearing the bulb out - Compared to other vehicles, I've rarely known them to come on once the engine is running (even when its obvious that theres something wrong by the way its driving).

[johnnyroper]

I would put money on it being failed rings,quite common on that engine

[Mirez]

Cheers gents, for reference its on 81K miles. Shimmed vs Hydraulic I have no idea

How do you diagnose between HG failure and Rings? I'm assuming the compression test will show low for both?

[brianh]

I think the usual way to diagnose rings is either by a leak down test, or by adding oil via plug hole to see if the result improves.

[Mirez]

Cheers Brian, I've been reading about ring failure and nearly everything says you see smoke from the exhaust which this one hasn't got. I'm wondering how much use sticking a borescope down the plug hole would reveal?

[brianh]

Wouldn't do any harm, and at least you haven't pulled it apart yet. Depends if you already have the boroscope really

[Mirez]

Yeah I have one so will put it down and see what can be seen, I take it I'm looking for scoring or the bore?

[johnnyroper]

Compression test will reveal enough to make a judgement, head gasket gone could cause low compression but I have never known one to be low enough to completely kill the cylinder. Rings failed you can have practically zero compression. Leak down test is the ideal test though.

When rings are on way out you can and do have smoke but if it's a catastrophic failure to lose all compression I think unlikely to cause smoke due to lack of pressure in cylinder to force oil residue through the valves.
A bore scope would tell you if the bores are scored as a result of broken rings scraping,if it's sticking rings then you won't see anything. I would whip the head of if it was me,it's only a little baby engine so imagine head removal is fairly easy.

[johnnyroper]

Could even be cracked piston,did a transit tipped earlier this year that had lost all compression on no3 once head was off (shit job) found piston was cracked. 2.2 psa engine.

[Mirez]

Ta, I'll stick the scope down and do the compression test either tomorrow or Friday and report back.

I think head removal is where its going though, the 1.0 is apparently the size of an A4 sheet so it shouldn't be too difficult although electronics are far more my comfort zone then mechanics! I know who I'll be calling on however if I get stuck

[johnnyroper]

Haha no problem I don't mind whipping engines apart,also don't mind electrics either. Electronics is a whole different thing I can test to a from components but what goes on inside is just black magic to me.

[Mirez]

Cheers!

See that bit I'm fine with!! I've spent the last couple of days deciphering can-bus messages on the Porsche, I can inject my own requests onto the bus to mimic actions which means retrofit heaven

Sadly though I want my trailer back so better crack on with this Fiesta before I get on with the fun stuff

[johnnyroper]

I can just about manage to find my way round can bus systems,had an issue with a bus line on a bmw few months back that I fumbled my way through but I don't really understand it. All that tech was in its infancy when I left the trade so not had great deal to do with it.

I don't have any projects on at present so no fun stuff for me,will be on lookout for some project cars in the new year. I quite like BMW's with broken timing chains as something to keep me entertained.

[Mirez]

So compression test done with fairly expected results:

Cyl 1 - 48 PSI
Cyl 2 - 152 PSi
Cyl 3 - 149 PSI

Repeated the test using the "wet test" method, basically a spoon of oil in that cylinder, and it then read 124 PSI which is apparently indicative of ring failure The scope didn't show anything tbh but I've read quite a bit on these now and it seems ring failure is really common, 81K appears to be good going for the 1.0 Ecoboost!!

It is finally showing Misfire on Cylinder 1 now though

There is a lot of people saying that the little ecoboost isn't worth repairing, its better to throw a whole engine in so I think I'll just ebay the thing as I don't have the inclination to strip it down. Thanks for the sounding-board though fella's, it's appreciated

[johnnyroper]

Definitely worn rings then the wet test has proved that, so the 1.0 isn't worth the hassle of repairing then?

[Mirez]

Plenty do, and given the cheapest 2nd hand one I could find was £1300 it's probably worth doing. I might still muck about with it, depends how busy I am in work come Tuesday 😅

[johnnyroper]

I was having a read up on that engine and it seems they have 2 wet belts that have a 100k 10 year life with a 10 hour Labour time to do it along with £800 special tooling required. I think I would be going the eBay as it is route aswell.

[johnnyroper]

Clearly the wet belt engines are notorious for being time bombs, work van in Elkins for brake pads and wiper blades but when they sent off for auth lease company wanted belts doing despite only on 40k miles. Big job on the 2.0 diesel aswell by sound of it. Oil pick up needs removing to clean out 2 days worth of work in total.
Not sure I would buy a transit with the 2.0 eco blue engine in it now.

[Mirez]

Interesting!

I've also been reading about them and yeah, 80K seems to be REALLY good for one of these without issue. I rang a number of local yards on the off-chance and they've all said the same thing - namely, they go out the door the second they get a runner!!

Its apparently a coating that breaks off the belts which then clogs the oil pickup, leading to low pressure. Turbo failures are also common it seems as a result... the list of ecoboost failures is very long when you delve into it which is shite for a modern engine!

[johnnyroper]

Ford engines seem to have drastically gone downhill in terms of reliability. I would seriously think twice about buying a modern Ford now.

[brianh]

Is there some advantage gained with the wet belt (wondering why they would opt for that route, as it doesn't seem to be for reliability?)

[johnnyroper]

On the diesel I get impression after doing some reading it was for noise and financial reasons. It didn't need a big redesign to go belt instead of the chain. So noise reduced but no massive R and D designing a new engine.

Ford recommended interval is 150k or 10 years, for a lease company to blow £1300 at 40k and 3 years says it all for me.

[Mirez]

Wet belts are supposed to generate less friction (I assume on the routing rather then the contact!!) and noise, which in turn means they can be smaller which all adds to the reduction in emissions.

Sadly though like most of the modern crap, its a reduction at the expense of either running cost, maintenance or reliability for the end user. I'm definitely all for reducing emissions but when you consider the c02 which is produced during manufacturing, transportation and disposal of failed components I can't imagine there is any saving in reality. I'd much rather see reductions in power output and rev limits bought in, a well geared 80bhp car is more then capable of hitting 70mph quickly - it doesn't need anything else for the average driver.

It's like like electric cars on a smaller scale. They are hailed as super clean and not polluting which of course is correct, for the user. For the countries that manufacture the batteries and the power plants that generate their electricity they still produce vast amounts of pollution but of course, it's clean if its not mine...

I'll step down now

[brianh]

On the diesel I get impression after doing some reading it was for noise and financial reasons. It didn't need a big redesign to go belt instead of the chain. So noise reduced but no massive R and D designing a new engine.

Ford recommended interval is 150k or 10 years, for a lease company to blow £1300 at 40k and 3 years says it all for me.

Good point, I've known some of them to reject tyre replacement because they are still at 1.7mm - come back in a thousand miles. Does suggest they have been burned before if they are willing to do that.

And as you say more efficient is better, but if your only measuring mpg that isn't the full picture if you have to replace an engine before you'd expect to need to. Wonder if its just a poor design choice, or not getting regular enough oil changes or with the right oil though or some other factor playing into it.

[johnnyroper]

People buy in to all this emissions stuff they are told,like the EV drivers who think they are saving the planet never questioning the whole manufacturing process and believing the electricity to stick in the battery grows on trees.

[Mirez]

Lol I remember sitting on the forecourt of KwiKFit Bath with the handbrake on, full lock to the left, spinning the passenger tyre in a cloud of smoke because they wouldn't change it with the drivers side as it was on 1.7mm - they didn't have a choice when I was done

There has to be something like that wrong with the design, 125bhp out of a 1.0 does scream of stressing components though.

[johnnyroper]

Good point, I've known some of them to reject tyre replacement because they are still at 1.7mm - come back in a thousand miles. Does suggest they have been burned before if they are willing to do that.

And as you say more efficient is better, but if your only measuring mpg that isn't the full picture if you have to replace an engine before you'd expect to need to. Wonder if its just a poor design choice, or not getting regular enough oil changes or with the right oil though or some other factor playing into it.

Servicing regimes could well play a part in the belt life, servicing is either 2 years or when the display comes up as service required. Just checked history it was done September 2020 at 15k miles, van now on 41k and no sign of the service light coming on. That's a long time for oil to be in that engine.

[Mirez]

Service intervals are crazy now, 26K on a van is just nuts. It's all good and well saying it'll do 25K miles on long-life oil (short-death engine) but that's not taking into account start-stops, idling, heavy loads, towing or all of the above!

Even the cars with oil quality sensors don't seem too reliable, interestingly the part number for the oil sensor in VW group cars hasn't changed for the last 15 years or so which makes me question if they are up to the job of sensing when long-life oil is dead or if they are still just looking at soot levels.

[johnnyroper]

26k and counting,have a feeling if the quality sensor doesn't flag it needs a service then it is done at 30k on these fords. All done to please lease companies but then they fit them with belts made of boot lace sitting in the oil😂
And these vans do their fair share of idling aswell,if it's not smashing up and down motorway to London it's parked somewhere idling for extended periods.

[SirDavidAlhambra]

Those little Ford engines are useless, it sounds like a cracked piston ring to me so I would do a compression test on it first, it will be much lower than if it is a gasket that has failed.

Truth be known, you can't beat the 1.9 Alhamb. Big engines last longer than small ones and a 1.0 is meant for a Ford Fiesta not a people carrier. Those little engines are constantly thrashed on the turbo but they do give good emissions results when driven really slowly.

I'd be inclined selling it on for spares and repairs unless you can get a cheap engine from somewhere.

I wonder if your Australian friend used to drive the vehicle unsympathetically, knowing that he could thrash it then dump it on someone before buggering off to Australia?

[johnnyroper]

Mirez has already done a compression test and confirmed cylinder 1 is way down. Common on those eco boost engines.

[SirDavidAlhambra]

Thank you and sorry that I was remiss in not reading everything thoroughly. It's no excuse, but I was in the bathroom on my mobile phone and being shouted at by my wife who was in a hurry to go out and I sort of skimmed through things quickly.

If the cylinder pressure is way down, then I would hazard a guess it is indeed the piston ring. Gasket failure would result in low  : :))pressure but not "way down" type of pressure.

Shame on Ford for their poor engine design. Whether it's 5.0 litre American cars that out out 120bhp or 1.0 European ones that shove out 200bhp, they just don't seem to be able to get the balance right. The correct ratio is around 80bhp per litre of cylinder capacity.

I hope it gets sorted soon, it sounds like it could be a nice little car with this fixed 

[Mirez]

I've only driven with him a few times and he's generally quite slow and refined so I'm not sure it has anything to do with the style (although he'd only had it a few months if I remember correctly so may have been ragged before that).

I have got shot now though, I didn't have the time or inclination to repair and since I didn't pay anything for it, my trailer space was far more important

It seems the 1.0 is shite, if its not the HG then its a Turbo or the Rings that fail - even the piston itself melting isn't unheard of!!!

Thanks for all the input though, always good to have a sounding board!

[brianh]

I'm not surprised about the melting having looked for piston rings to see if they were particually thin and finding this
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/115120206715

The piston itself seems tiny to me by comparison, particually height wise when you look at the photos on that auction.

[brianh]

Also just to illustrate the threshold of faults that can be logged without bringing the MIL light on, having checked mine with Forscan today (trying to fix the non-working cruise control) I discovered its been logging lean running codes as well as the invalid fuel level message (The later of those expected as its a gas vehicle so doesn't see the fuel level dropping as it should do as its not using the petrol). I'd started noticing it was sluggish when first started, I now know why having looked into it further. Turned out the gas vapour filter was so clogged it was hard to even blow through it so no wonder it was logging lean codes really, but would have been helpful if it had brought the light on so I'd known to actually look.

[SirDavidAlhambra]

Interesting... my Ford Focus has negative long term fuel trim of about -10%... could it be one of these gas filters clogged, like on your car Brian? Where might I find this filter... I would be keen to clean it out just to make sure the vehicle is running optimally... is it the same as the petrol fuel filter? I've never changed that before. Thank you.

[brianh]

Not unless you've had it converted to run on LPG. -10% is probabbly fine. Mine was logging fault codes and trims were going to +25% which clearly wasn't fine. New filter fixed the issue, which would be similar to a clogged petrol filter yes. But yours is a negative fuel trim not positive, so not likely to be a fuel supply issue.

The fuel filter on the Focus depending on the year might be next to the petrol tank, and generally Ford petrol filters are a pain to change (the Galaxy being much easier than your typical Ford)

[SirDavidAlhambra]

Thank you very much Brian, that is reassuring to hear.

I hope you have a lovely Sunday afternoon and evening

[brianh]

Looks like this wet belt thing is a bit more widespread, Mate of mine has just brought himself a Peugeot 107 and on having a look round it he has now realised it has one of these wet belts - as you can see the rubber belt inside the oil filler cap area.

https://www.peugeotforums.com/threads/timing-belt-crumbles-causing-clogged-oil-system.333046/ suggests they are problematic in the same way as the Ecoboost mentioned further up in the thread. Seems in the Peugeot they have changed the belt after initial problems to different materials, but much the same issues with debris coming off the belt and blocking up the oil pump etc.

[SirDavidAlhambra]

Yes, truth be known, you can't beat a chain rather than a belt. I used to have one on a Saab but you still had to remember to change the water pump every now and then. It's a funny old world, makes you wonder what the engine designers are thinking when they decide "oh I know, let's use a rubber belt on this critical engine component rather than a chain which is much stronger and won't break anywhere near as easily". I could teach them a thing or two about engine design. Including putting the oil filter at the top where it's easy to access and change. And maybe a drainage plug in a nice accessible location! And whoever decided to put the cabin air filter behind the wiper blades in the Galaxy should be put in the stocks for a day. Similarly with whoever chose the brittle wiring that goes through the door rubbers. And the booster heater man while we're at it.

I'd like to shake the hand of whoever designed the heated front windscreen though.

[Mirez]

Looks like this wet belt thing is a bit more widespread, Mate of mine has just brought himself a Peugeot 107 and on having a look round it he has now realised it has one of these wet belts

Tge 107 is a town car not a motorway cruiser and the 1.0 petrol is a decent engine with a timing chain which is perfectly matched to what you generally use them for, not to diss your mate too much but I don't see why anyone would get a diesel 107!. 🤔

Wet belts do seem to be in quite a lot of modern engines though, you do wonder if they test ANYTHING these days

And whoever decided to put the cabin air filter behind the wiper blades in the Galaxy should be put in the stocks for a day

Wayyyyyyy too lenient for that act of 'engineering'!!! They deserve to me made to drive a vauxhall for the rest of their days!

[brianh]

Its the petrol 1.2 not the diesel. I'm puzzled by the decision as well. He thought he had brought the 1.0 not the 1.2, was only when I looked it up and said it was 1.2 that he found out.

His other vehicle is a 1970s land rover, but he wants the Peugeot for longer trips....

[Mirez]

Think he's got a 108 then?

99% sure the 107 only came with a 1.0 3cyl. Still a very small car for longer journeys although I'm not sure a 1970s landy would be any more fun lol

[brianh]

Think he's got a 108 then?

99% sure the 107 only came with a 1.0 3cyl. Still a very small car for longer journeys although I'm not sure a 1970s landy would be any more fun lol

Your right, its a 108 just checked the photo he sent me of it!

The series is not what I'd call comfortable, Or reassuring to be in, or quick for that matter. If its on the motorway, your getting overtaken by lorries, and its ability to hold a straight line at modest speeds is lacking to put it midly.

On the pollen filter front, at least you don't have to remove the glovebox like you do on a lot of Vauxhall vehicles! Yes its awkard, but where else would you put it. The most bizarre one I've seen on that is the Espace IV - the heater motor and resistor packs is under the drivers seat, you actually get to it from underneath the car! Pollen filter on that is dead easy to change, open the bonnet and pull it out. Nothing else on that car is easy to access though, they even hid a fuseboard behind the handbrake control where you can't easily get to it.

[Mirez]

Yeah Steph has a 107 which we use as a run about really as it was cheap and costs sod all to run and service. I've not tried the 108 but the 107 is ok-ish, it's also not fast or reassuring although it will get up to 70 relatively ok but it's far more at home in town fetching what little groceries its boot can carry

The pollen filter they sort of stymied themselves with the fake bulkhead, they possibly could have ducted it above the wiper mechanism but I think we get stuffed being RHD which I guess is to be expected.

Not played with the Espace and sounds like I don't want to lol, it shoes the disconnect some manufacturers have between designers, engineering and servicing departments though. Real world experience clearly isn't top of the tree to be a French designer, cram it in

[johnnyroper]

Reminds me of when I did apprenticeship at Peugeot I was always told if you can work on them you can work on anything as PSA do like cramming stuff in nice and tight. It was a breath of fresh air when I moved to vauxhall they are so easy to work on.

[brianh]

Yeah Steph has a 107 which we use as a run about really as it was cheap and costs sod all to run and service. I've not tried the 108 but the 107 is ok-ish, it's also not fast or reassuring although it will get up to 70 relatively ok but it's far more at home in town fetching what little groceries its boot can carry

The pollen filter they sort of stymied themselves with the fake bulkhead, they possibly could have ducted it above the wiper mechanism but I think we get stuffed being RHD which I guess is to be expected.

Not played with the Espace and sounds like I don't want to lol, it shoes the disconnect some manufacturers have between designers, engineering and servicing departments though. Real world experience clearly isn't top of the tree to be a French designer, cram it in

Its more a case of its ok there in a LHD car (Espace aux fusebox), so we will leave it there in a RHD vehcile. What really got me is the service manuals description still refers to it to be behind the glovebox, which is obviously on the other side of the car over here. so you'd assume they moved the glovebox only to find when you remove the glovebox nothing is there.

No you don't want much to do with them, Crappy keycard thats always getting broken, loves to run its battery flat over the space of 10 days for no apparant reason as well (maybe related to the broken keycard, not sure!). Also changing a front spring I'm told was not an enjoyable experience (the guy who's just brought the 108 volunteered to do it when one spring snapped) - as its bolted inside the car, you can only gain access through the top of the dash by removing a panel with a speaker in it from inside the car right up against the windscreen. I'd have thought that would have been enough to put him off any French car in future, but apparantly not!

Its good in some respects - when its working its nice to drive, comfortable etc, and its got the flat rear floor like the older model Galaxy with fully removable seats, but electronics on them are just a nightmare. I've had problems with the electronic handbrake control, EGR valve, Rear parking sensors, Headlight levelling plus the non-functioning locks. I'd never have another Renault after experiencing this one.

[mikewilson]

Wayyyyyyy too lenient for that act of 'engineering'!!! They deserve to me made to drive a vauxhall for the rest of their days!

Actually, they should be made to change three Mondeo cabin filters a day for the rest of their days.  That location is just perverse.

Pity the 1.0 triple is so badly engineered.  It's a lovely engine to drive.  The new Morgan three-wheeler uses the larger version, I believe.

[Grant2012]

It's been ironed out for later models hasn't it?

Are all ecoboost engines a bit troublesome or is it just the 1.0 thats crap? I've been looking at a 2.0 Ecoboost in the Ford edge which drove lovely and only has 30k on the clock. Do they have wet belts and would you get one? Is the Ecoboost the same as the ecogreen does anyone know?