Tiguan DSG making a loud crunch / crunching noise when in 5th gear

[Haley Wood]

Hi, my 2013 Tiguan has started making an intermittent crunching noise when it changes up or down into 5th. Its done it about 6 times in 1000 miles so isnt very often but its a God awful noise when it happens akin to pushing a manual into gear without the clutch! It lasts about a second with no jolts or power issue.
There are no other noises and it drives bob on otherwise. Have taken it into VW who say there are no faults on the computer and naturally it never occurs during the test drive 🤔😡

Does anyone have an ideas? I commute 150 miles a day and am getting scared its going to blow up soon and leave me stranded!

[Mirez]

I have a fix for you but first, has the DSG been serviced recently?

[Haley Wood]

Hi. Yes it was serviced in January by Robinsons VW. The car has aone 46k miles.

[Mirez]

Interesting. So I am 99% sure you have the same issue that I had. Slightly technical but;

Before the 177 PS engine became available the biggest engine was the 140 PS and came with the DQ250 box. When they decided to put the bigger engine in they realised the torque couldn't be handled by that box so they mated the 177 CFGC engine with the transporters DQ500 gearbox.

They ran that combo for around 9 months before the DQ380 came out so the CFGC and DQ500 combo is relatively rare. Both engine and gearbox are used extensively in other marques and models but because its not often seen in the Tiguan quite often its not included in VW technical publications.

So the good news is that noise is caused by a software glitch which appears to always rear its head just after a service, I'm still not sure why that is but there seems to be a revision to the oil used since the factory so its likely to be to do with viscosity.

Your car will almost certainly have software 2235 on it and you'll need to get it flashed at VW to the newer 2207... yes the number is lower but that IS the upgrade... go figure!


Address 02: Auto Trans (J743)       Labels:. 0BH-927-711.clb
   Part No SW: 0BH 300 012 A    HW: 0BH 927 711 C
   Component: DSG DQ500-7A  H08 2235 
   Coding: 0014


becomes;


Address 02: Auto Trans       Labels: 0BH-927-711.clb
  Part No SW: 0BH 300 012 A    HW: 0BH 927 711 C
  Component: DSG DQ500-7A  H08 2207
  Coding: 0014


VW don't normally like doing updates unless something is obviously wrong so ask them to look at the Transporter's technical publications [TPI 2041964/3] which details what they term a 'scratching' noise in 5th gear with this engine, box and software setup. That should give you the clout to firstly get them to do the job and secondly give you a refund of they charged you for diagnostics the first time!!

Good luck!

[Haley Wood]

Just to follow up I have had the update done with thanks to the info you posted. As you said it took some pursuation to get them to do the update without diagnosing it first but managed to get them to in the end. Will report back how it goes. Thanks you so far.

[Peter Holloway]

Hello from Cape Town!

I'm very interested to hear if the software update solved your 5th gear issue @Haley Wood.

My 2013 Tiguan TDI 140hp has the DQ500 transmission (sw 2234) and I can repeatably recreate the grinding noise by driving in manual in 5th gear. Previously the grinding noise was difficult to characterize, but now that I know it happens in 5th, I have confirmed that it also happens in 5th when in auto mode.

[Haley Wood]

HI there! Its only been a few days but touch wood no noises yet. Thanks @Mirez 

[Peter Holloway]

Great news! Thanks for the feedback.

[Mirez]

Hey Peter, welcome to our forum!

The TPI that relates to the DQ500 box does list a number of effected software software versions and I'm sure 2234 was also one of them.

Glad it's not made the noise Haley, hopefully yours will stay as quiet as mine has been!

[Peter Holloway]

Thank you @Mirez! Is there possibly  somewhere that the TPI can be viewed online?

[Mirez]

Quite hard to get hold of them unfortunately, I'll see what can be done though

[Peter Holloway]

Thanks @Mirez , having the TPI will be a great help to convince the dealership to do the update

[Mirez]

TPI obtained but only issued under guarantee I wouldn't post it! However, the only thing of real relavance to us is the chart, the rest is all stuff that relates to how to do the update and VW's accounting etc so there is no need to share that anyway

If you can't find your current info from VCDS etc then you'll need to hunt the ID sticker thats on the top of the box (toward the front). Looking at the software revisions within I can't understand how they do version control at all! 0BH 300 012 A is surely older then 0BH 300 012 B yet seems to have earlier software available to it! 

[attachimg=1]

[Peter Holloway]

Fantastic, thanks Mark! hopefully mine will get done next week :-)

[Peter Holloway]

Just an update... my Tiguan is with the dealer for the DSG update now, they're keeping it overnight to test it in the morning when it's cold , so I should know tomorrow if the update has resolved the grating gear issue.

[Haley Wood]

Looking forward to your update, still no noises from mine!

[Peter Holloway]

Just has a call from VW and they have confirmed that the software update solved the issue... happy days

Thanks to @Haley Wood for starting this thread and @Mirez for all the valuable info!

[Mirez]

Awesome news Peter

When you get it back could you send me the scan again or confirm what version its now on? I have mine and Haleys already so will start a reference library topic for this one. Thanks

[Peter Holloway]

Just did a VAG scan to check which version was loaded, details are:

Address 02: Auto Trans (J743)       Labels:. 0BH-927-711.clb
   Part No SW: 0BH 300 012 A    HW: 0BH 927 711 C
   Component: DSG DQ500-7A  H08 2234
   Coding: 0014

became

Address 02: Auto Trans       Labels: 0BH-927-711.clb
  Part No SW: 0BH 300 012 A    HW: 0BH 927 711 C
  Component: DSG DQ500-7A  H08 2208
  Coding: 0014

From the TPI table above, my DSG identifier must be E... wonder where this comes from?

[Mirez]

I can only assume its either on the data sticker or its encoded within the software as its not mentioned throughout the TPI!
Again I'm still completely baffled by their version control! So your 2013 has now got 2208 and my 2014 car has got 2207 lol

Are you noise free now?

[Peter Holloway]

Completely baffling, as you say... but yes, I'm noise free now 

[Peter Holloway]

Hello all, thought I would give an update here on this issue. My wife is the primary driver of our Tiguan, and has commented a few times that the 5th gear crunch still happens, but a way more subdued version thereof. Yesterday we were returning from a camping trip in the mountains, towing a trailer, and sure as nuts it made the crunching noise again in 5th gear. The noise is less harsh though, but always in 5th gear, so must be related to the previous issue.

Anyone else experiencing this?

Should I be concerned?

[Haley Wood]

How long did you leave it before getting the update done? Mine has been silent since but I got strait on with it as that noise was horrible and clearly something badly wrong!

[Peter Holloway]

We had just purchased the car, it was 5 years old, so not sure how long it had been making the noise before we bought it... could very well be the reason the previous owner traded it in.

It's been almost a year now and I'm happy to report that there have been no further gearbox issues as a result of the crunch. We recently did a 4000km road trip which included going up and down Sani Pass, a 4x4 trail to the highest pub in Africa. The Tiguan never once missed a beat and the occurrence of the subdued 5th gear crunch has become less and less... can't actually remember when last we heard it, so the problem has been solved, for all intents and purposes.

[Msze]

Hi all - registered to say thank you for this conversation. Was experiencing the exact issue on my 2013 Tiguan and had been into the VW dealership (Australia) who had never heard about it and could not replicate it. After asking them to check this TPI they said it didn't apply, then after checking with their chief mechanic they said it did.

Although they were reluctant to apply the update without being able to replicate the issue, they did so and I haven't heard the sound since.

Thank you, saved me from considering replacing the car!

[Mirez]

Hi Mark, thanks for joining

Fantastic news that this is fixing cars around the world Here's hoping for years more noise free travels!

[SirDavidAlhambra]

Iââ,¬â,,¢m so pleased the software update fixed your car!!

I always like to keep my computer up to date, and I think I would like to check for any software updates for my car too, just to make sure it runs as well as possible. Please does anyone know how I can update the firmware, do you just download it from their website and load via a usb stick or similar please? Thank you.

[saza]

Just wanted to say another member here who's had the crunching 5th fixed with the software update

Seems common that VW don't want to do this update as I couldn't convince them even with this thread printed out and a copy of the TPI they were still adament it didnt apply to my Tiguan. When I called another dealer they were much open to the idea and did the update for Ã,£55. Its been two months now and no crunch so thankyou to mirez and haley for saving my DSG!

[SirDavidAlhambra]

I wonder why they were reluctant to update the software. Iââ,¬â,,¢d have thought having the latest software installed can only be a good thing. A few clicks and an upload and hey presto job done. It would probably have been harder to do an oil change! So itââ,¬â,,¢s strange that they seem reluctant to do the upgrades, after all why not.

Glad to hear that u persisted and got it fixed!

And finally, our new friend: 

[Mirez]

In a word, Liability.

If they update the software and something goes wrong then it's on them to fix it. When VW issue a TPI they will highlight the models effected, due to the very short period of time the Tiguan was offered with the DQ500 box, it's been overlooked. Therefore this one does not specifically mention the Tiguan and as such, it's automatically discounted as being applicable by most service techs. You therefore have to overcome that as well as the liability issue and of course there is also the 'opportunity' for them to sell some diagnostics first!

Let's also not forget that as @Msze found, sadly garage techs have moved to a culture of doing what the computer tells them to. I would be surprised if half in main dealers knew the engine codes fitted to the Tiguan, less still the Gearbox codes. They will put the reg/vin into a computer and it will tell them what to fit/check without them ever really needing to know, the knowledge and experience to look closer is sadly becoming less common so again, since this TPI isn't specifically referenced as being applicable to the Tiguan it won't show up. Fortunately, msze had someone who obviously looked at both engine and gearbox codes, put 2 and 2 together and used common sense - rare!

Finally, don't forget "the customer couldn't possibly know more then us!" attitude that many service managers bestow on their staff.

[SirDavidAlhambra]

So, so true. Itââ,¬â,,¢s as if theyââ,¬â,,¢re too nervous to use common sense really. I have to say Iââ,¬â,,¢ve noticed the loss of skills in garages too... very often I seem to know more about how to fix my car than the people in the garage just because Iââ,¬â,,¢ve done some simple reading on the internet or have asked my friends on here, all the posh garages seem to do is the really obvious stuff and then if itââ,¬â,,¢s more complicated it seems to be just changing parts until it works again. I like going to the old fashioned garages where the gaffer really knows his stuff and doesnââ,¬â,,¢t mind using a bit of good old fashioned common sense. You might not get a marble tiled waiting room and a fancy receptionist, but to be honest Iââ,¬â,,¢d rather have tea and a biscuit and have a chat with the mechanic himself (or herself) as you learn so much more that way and it usually ends up being cheaper too. I get really nervous at the big posh showrooms because I always worry theyââ,¬â,,¢re going to charge me loads of money and not do a very good job. I once had a ââ,¬Å"cheapââ,¬Â MOT done at a big garage and they tried to sell me some really rubbish tyres for quite a high price! I went 2 miles down the road to a lesser known outfit and they put some Michelin CrossClimate Plus tyres on for about Ã,£20 more per wheel.

The man I use for doing tricky jobs on my Alhamb says that these days a lot of mechanics are actually what he calls ââ,¬Å"fittersââ,¬Â by which he means they are good at changing parts but donââ,¬â,,¢t really understand how the car actually works

All I can say is thank goodness for the knowledgable experts on the computer message boards like this one!!

[Edson mofacinho]

   does anybody knows wich version I need to flash to my DQ500-7A gearbox?
is a OBH300012B  version 2233, and I have exactly this same problem.

[Mirez]

Probably 2261, where they get the identifier from is a source of confusion but I suspect your box marries up the C/D identifier.

[Edson mofacinho]

   thanks a lot for your reply, Mirez!
what I observed is everybody flashes a lower number version and works.
But there is no oficial procedure to this update, I guess...
Do you know how can I get this 2261 update file?
The specialist is taking care of my gearbox does not have this file version...

[Mirez]

Some tuners will have it but realistically, your best bet is taking it to a main VW dealer as they will automatically update it to the correct one. In the UK at least, it's pretty cheap to have them carry that out as well so not really worth the hassle of trying to find anyone else.

Don't be fooled by the lower number by the way, VW version control appears to be utter crap. Some of the lower numbers have later release dates then the higher ones so you can't go by that at all!!

[SirDavidAlhambra]

Yeah, I?d take it back to the shop where you bought it and tell them to fix it pronto if the gearbox isn?t working like it should! The consumer should not be concerned with such technical affairs.

[Edson mofacinho]

  Mirez!

Some tuners will have it but realistically, your best bet is taking it to a main VW dealer as they will automatically update it to the correct one. In the UK at least, it's pretty cheap to have them carry that out as well so not really worth the hassle of trying to find anyone else.

Don't be fooled by the lower number by the way, VW version control appears to be utter crap. Some of the lower numbers have later release dates then the higher ones so you can't go by that at all!!

[mikewilson]

Discussed this with an Australian who was considering buying a Touareg.  Turned out his was outside the parameters of those likely to suffer but......

After having it serviced, he noticed drops of oil on the drive.  After two weeks, it asked him to add oil.  Odd, after such a short interval.  No dipstick - you have to rely on the level sensor.  Drops increased in number.  Called the VW main dealer (5 minutes away) who did the service and they called him straight in, saying a ramp would be waiting.  Turns out there is a known issue with failing sump washers, which can let go rapidly.

Oil everywhere and a free oil change and degrease supplied.  Might be worth keeping an eye on.