Fuel injector fault

[wilcoxc]

I recently broke down, late at night, kids in car, middle of nowhere  .  It turns out it was injector 2 at fault. It happened at around 60mph in 6th gear, felt a little knocking at around 2000ish rpm. Ive since seen that apperently there are known issues with the injectors ending in 3 on this model, already had 1 replaced under warranty, number 2 needs changing so im guessing im going to need the other 2 doing aswell? wont this cost a fortune? i only bought the car 5 months ago from a dealer and dont expect the car to cost this much in repairs for its age/mileage.

[mike wilson]

Wait till next year, when you need to do the timing belts.  (Note the plural)  It's not much cheaper than a set of injectors, if you go to a Ford dealer.

On the plus side, once the injectors (yours is a little late for the "3" issue - it's not the number printed on the black top part but one on a label underneath that) and belts are done, you should have very little other issue with it.  No dpf, easy-block EGR to prevent staggering at take off; unlike the PAS two and two point two engines.

The only other problem I've seen with them is that they don't like to be slogged.  In the Mondeo, under normal driving conditions, you need to be about 40mph before engaging fourth, 50/5th, 60/6th.  Using them a lot at lower speeds/higher gears seems to cause little end problems.  Might need to be higher speeds in a larger vehicle.

The "3" issue is not usually terminal.  The car will stutter and go into limp mode but will recover after a time depending on how heat-soaked the engine is.  Often it's immediate if the car is still cold/only warm.  If yours was really dead, it's probably a different issue.  You can swap (AFAIK) any Ford Siemens injector for your dead ones.  There are often sets available on auction sites, from about Ã,£40 each.

[wilcoxc]

Thanks for the reply! few questions:
1. How much is a timing belts replacement?
2. Will i not damage anything continuing to drive with a duff/failing injector?
3. What do you mean by 'really dead'?

[mike wilson]

1. Very variable.  For example, it cost me over Ã,£1000 at the local shyster main dealer.  Partly my own fault for trying to do it myself first.  I have heard of people getting it done for less than half of that.  Sounds a lot but it's only every 100k miles.  Ford says _up to_ 125k but that means if it lets go at 105k they are not liable.

Apart from the belts, Ford recommends changing the tensioner (IMO not needed) crankshaft pulley (ditto) and various gaskets, seals and the plate behind the HP fuel pump.  The last three make sense - except for their prices....

2. I suspect that the stuttering will lead to earlier DMF/drive joint failure.  Personal opinion and I can't quantify that.

3. By really dead, I mean electrically or mechanically not working on a permanent basis.  As I say, the known issue is a problem with internal coil insulation breaking down.  It only seems to happen when the injector gets good and hot and goes away once it cools down.  At least for the gross symptoms.  I suspect they are _never_ as good as they should be but this can only be diagnosed with suitable software.

[wilcoxc]

Am i better off just selling this on for something else? Seen as i need 3 new injectors?

[wilcoxc]

Also, as i can only afford to do one at a time is there any risk/issue with replacing one injector at a time? (With second hand ones)

[wilcoxc]

Also, as i can only afford to do one at a time is there any risk/issue with replacing one injector at a time? (With second hand ones)

[johnnyroper]

reading your posts it seems no2 is faulty and you assume the remaining 2 will fail at some point? No issue changing no2 and then leaving a while until funds allow others to be changed should they be required in my opinion.

[mike wilson]

I don't think yours are likely to be the "defective from new" ones.  If it's just been used for the school run and other such short journeys, they may just be clogged up.  Try running some injector cleaner at high doses for a while and use premium fuel.  Give it a jolly good caning once a week - staying in 4/5th at motorway speeds for as long as you can.

Paradoxically this may make things worse for a while, as crud is dispersed.  If it goes into limp mode, a quick ignition off and on again should allow a restart.  Very occasionally, it may require a few minutes to cool down before restarting out of limp mode.

I note from your first post that it was 60mph/6th gear.  This is a combination I would only use on a very light throttle/downhill.  The engine is just coming up to peak torque revs (~1800) at that point and would not be happy with high throttle values.  Have you had the knock detector checked?

[wilcoxc]

Thanks for the reply! Have'nt had the knock sensor checked, dont know anything about it to be honest. Only got the car 6 months ago at a dealer!

[wilcoxc]

It actually says in the service history that there were issues with an injector and they swapped 2 around. Recommended replacing the lot if one goes.

[johnnyroper]

You could try injector cleaner and a good old Italian tune up, 5th gear down motorway to keep revs higher so temps raised to blow gunk out.

[mike wilson]

It actually says in the service history that there were issues with an injector and they swapped 2 around. Recommended replacing the lot if one goes.

Never understood the logic of swapping, except to see if the fault follows and then replace the faulty item.  Just swapping and then doing nothing makes no sense.  They would, of course, suggest replacing all injectors - at ~Ã,£250 each...

[wilcoxc]

Can i just ask, the fault code p0202 refers to injector 2. Is this the second injector from the left as you look at the injector from the front of the car?

[johnnyroper]

Yes I think so itââ,¬â,,¢s only the French that day no1 is bell housing side if I remember correctly.
Ford are no1 timing side no4 bell housing side

[wilcoxc]

Could this be an issue with the wiring loom or more likely injectors?

[mike wilson]

I don't remember seeing a wiring loom issue on this engine anywhere.  It's nearly always injectors. On the plus side, there are always loads available.

As found:
https://www.easycarparts.com/products/2005-ford-focus-c-max-1-6-tdci-fuel-injector-0445110136?utm_medium=cpc&utm_source=googlepla&variant=5559061188

Refurbished:
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/REMANUFACTURED-FORD-1-8-TDCI-DIESEL-INJECTOR-4M5Q9F593AD-7T1Q9F593AB/172982392966?epid=741225469&hash=item28468dd886:g:774AAOSwxbJZhc29

[wilcoxc]

Thanks for the quick response mike. Was hiping it might be a cheaper fix but looks like i may have to bite the bullet on this one. May take out a warranty after incase anything else decides to go!

[mike wilson]

Just remember to get a production date on the injector you buy.  Steer clear of stuff made from about 08/07 to 09/08.  That's the era of the bad batch.  I've added a little extra to the times issued by Ford; you may want to add more.