S-Max Air Conditioning Fault - Please help! Also, ECT sensor location

[Mezzo]

Hello S-MAX owners
I am having a very frustrating time with the AC on my 2010 2.0 TDCi. To cut a very long story short I have confirmed that the system is not leaking gas, I have had the AC pressure switch replaced and the cooling fan module replaced (unfortunately this part his only supplied by Ford with the whole cooling fan unit!). Neither of which fixed the problem. I then took it to my local Ford main dealer, who charged me Ã,£75 to tell me that the AC was definitely not working and that I would have to pay Ã,£75 an hour for investigating further with no guarantees that they could identify the problem. 
So, having spent over Ã,£700 and still not fixed the problem I am somewhat disillusioned and reluctant to shell out any more money on guess-work.
I have checked the fault codes and I have P0480 - Fan 1 Control Circuit.

As part of this I would like to confirm that the engine cooling fan is actually working and I understand that I can check this easily by disconnecting the Engine Coolant Temperature Sensor. However, I can't locate this easily and can't find any photographs or diagrams of its location on the internet. I know it's tucked around the back on the passenger side but for the life of me, I can't locate it.

Any advice would be very welcome indeed.
Thank you for reading my tale of woe

Mezzo

[2006ransome]

So has any one confirmed the compressor runs ?

[johnnyroper]

You say spent Ã,£700 on this fault has anyone actually checked switches,relays etc are operating and supplying a feed down to pressure switch and compressor?

Have you had an auto electrician look at the car? Forget people that charge air con and ford main dealers find yourself a proper auto electrician to come round and look at it.

Rather than unplugging coolant sensor get fan control code cleared first as it could have been triggered when you had fan changed,if it comes back then look in to it.

[Mezzo]

Thank you both for your replies and excellent advice.
I don't know about the compressor actually running but I had hoped my local garage would have ascertained this early on in their investigations.  They did tell me that they had checked all the obvious things and I had to take them at their word, not being a mechanic myself.  I have managed to get a recommendation for an auto electrician who I am visiting next week.  I will certainly ask him to start by confirming that the compressor (and cooling fan, for that matter) actually runs - thank you again for that suggestion.
I have the modified ELM327 device and forscan software for iPhone and I have cleared the fan fault code (because I believe this must be done for the fan to operate normally) but the same fault code pops up again almost immediately.
Do either of you know which are the relays that operate the compressor and the fan?

Thank you

Mezzo

[johnnyroper]

Here you go have a read of this it seems a common issue on the s max,would also explain the fan problem

http://bba-reman.com/forums/Topic108275.aspx

Something to show the auto spark if you don't feel confident enough to check out yourself.

[Mezzo]

Thank you.
That makes for very interesting reading.
I will certainly check out those earth connections and hopefully the rest of the information will save time at the auto spark I visit.
I managed to locate the ECT sensor (as mentioned in the thread you sent me) but it's in an impossible place to access and disconnect to test the that the engine fan is actually working. If anybody has any idea how to disconnect this sensor, I would be very interested to hear? I'm looking forward to the new Haynes manual coming out, in which hopefully all will be revealed.

Code Select Expand

[Mezzo]

So, I took it to an auto electrician who tested the fuses, relays, compressor and engine fan and found all to be working.
He told me the problem was very probably in the wiring loom between the engine fan and ECU. Stripping it back could take hours and then I might find that the issue was with the ECU after all.  He said he'd be tempted to replace the whole wiring loom but that would cost about Ã,£1200 and still might not fix the AC. I asked him what he would do if this was his car and he said he'd probably sell it on!
I'm at my wits' end.  The thought of sitting in traffic on a hot summers day with the kids in the back complaining is almost more than I can face!
Unless anybody has any further suggestions, I might have to take the auto electricians advice and trade it in - which seems a drastic and very expensive measure on account of the AC!

[johnnyroper]

If relay,fan,compressor are all working then so should the air con,and for him to suggest changing wiring loom makes no sense if all the above items are working.

I would question the auto electricians ability personally.

It's not hard to unplug control unit and continuity test wiring from ecu plug back to the components to confirm a fault with loom rather than changing it.
I would not be changing car for an air con fault.

Did he actually look at the posted thread of common s max air con fault? A decent auto elec should be able to check individual wires and if faulty repair or replace wires rather than a loom.

[Mezzo]

OK, thank you.  That gives me hope again.
Yes, I did show him the thread of common AC S-Max faults but I'm not convinced he paid much heed to it.  I've got a multi-meter and youtube, perhaps I can do this myself!
More realistically, I need a recommendation of a talented auto-electrician in the Richmond-upon Thames area - if anybody has one please?

Thanks again.

[johnnyroper]

If you are able to access the control unit it is very simple to continuity check wiring from plug to fan,relay,compressor etc. The wires are all colour coded so can be matched up just have meter set to resistance and put one lead on control until pin and other on corresponding wire colour at fan,relay,compressor etc and see what it reads.

Looking at other thread I would pay particular attention to fan wiring think it was pink wire that had the problem?

Don't give up on the motor just for air con it's fixable and in my opinion will be a wire defect going by the other thread comments,it seems it is a common issue with poor quality wiring loom.

[johnnyroper]

Shame you are not closer I would have had a look for you,hate to see people getting taken for a ride with cars by people just changing bits without checking properly.

[Mezzo]

Thank you again. I'm sure I can do this and I know which is the dodgy pink wire to start my investigations.  What do you mean by the control unit? Is that the box below the fuses?  Should I disconnect the battery before starting?

Its a lovely, low mileage, well-maintained car so it would indeed be crazy to get rid of it for the sake of a broken wire.

[Chrispb]

I think you'll find the fan controller either built into the fan motor or very close to it.

[johnnyroper]

Looking at the other thread it sounds like control unit is behind bumper somewhere?

[Mezzo]

Well, I've ordered the new Haynes manual and I hope it has a comprehensive section on electrics.
If I get to the bottom of this issue, I promise to post the solution here in the hope that it helps others.
Judging from the number of hits this thread is receiving, I am not alone.

[Chrispb]

Going by last few books I've bought you will probably be disappointed.
They tend to be low level wiring and not everything will be covered and it will always be that part that you need.

[Mezzo]

Shame you are not closer I would have had a look for you,hate to see people getting taken for a ride with cars by people just changing bits without checking properly.

My sister lives in South Gloucestershire.  I might just take you up on that offer next time I'm visiting. 

[insanitybeard]

Unfortunately as Chris says there are so many wiring variations depending on build date and spec (engine type and trim level etc) that they'd never be able to compile it all and publish it in one book, the best you'll likely get is an overview of the basic electrical systems and layout which may or may not be enough to help you depending on whether the info you need is covered. The mechanical side of things however will be better & more comprehensive though so that's a positive.

[Mezzo]

AC PROBLEM SOLVED!
Just in case somebody stumbles on this thread and wonders how this sorry saga ended up, I will tell you how I fixed the electrical fault on the AC of my S-Max.
The fault code I had was P0480 - Fan 1 Control Circuit.  The fault lay in a break in the lilac coloured control wire that runs from the Engine Cooling Fan module to the PCM, caused by moisture getting into the wiring loom and corroding the wire.

1) Remove the passenger side headlamp assembly
2) Remove the air box
3) Unplug the connector at the engine cooling fan module
4) Identify the lilac coloured wire and start stripping back the wiring loom, from the fan connector, to reveal the 3 wires (including the lilac control wire) that go to the fan.  Carefully inspect the lilac wire as you go and look out for tell-tale signs of greenish salts that indicate corrosion.

I found the corrosion at the first Y-joint.  I Repaired the wire, cleared the fault code and hey presto! Fixed AC.
I have included a picture of the Y-joint on my car and if you follow the lilac coloured wire down from the top, you can see the greenish salts indicating the the location of corroded wire.
The stripping back of the loom took some doing because it was tucked inside a corrugated plastic tube and wrapped with copious amounts of tape.

I hope this helps somebody.

[johnnyroper]

Nice one glad you got it sorted in the end.

Did you manage to do it yourself and save paying someone else to?

[Mezzo]

I did it myself in the end - it was my only option as I couldn't find anybody (not even the main dealer) willing to commit, for fear of not being able to fix the problem (and still having to charge me - I guess). Having spent Ã,£700 on labour and parts trying to fix this, it was rather upsetting to find it was simply a broken wire!

Joe

[johnnyroper]

Gutting to think you have spent so much without success.
But always feel better knowing you have fixed it yourself where others couldn't, now you can get back to enjoying your motor again.

[gregers]

 

[Mezzo]

Thank you.  Yes, I am back in love with the car!
The up-shot of all this is that I have a genuine, unused and boxed Ford Engine Fan 1768199 - with which I will try my luck on eBay, to see if I can recoup some of my unnecessary outlay.